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While discussing anopther topic on a separate thread one of the issues that was raised was the frequency of non or slow starters in jumps racing.
Thinking about this, there are also lots of instances when fields are set off ‘unfairly, with certain horses given an advantage, albeit not deliberately, which seems bound to continue occuring while we have the type of start we do now.
I’m sure we’ve all seen and heard on TV the impatience of the starters with jockeys who are too keen, etc.
Thinking about this wouldn’t all the above be solved if we started jumps races from stalls. You don’t very often see horses fail to start from stalls (so rare that it features on Question of Sport when it does), all horses start in a straight line, no advantage to anyone in that regard and, finally, instead of trying to judge when they’re ready to go the starter just have to wait until they are all in and then hit the button.
Why don’t we start jumps races from stalls? Is it a cost issue? Are the tracks not wide enough to accomodate?
A good idea for the Grand National, if nothing else.
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A good topic for debate, it’s certainly something that could at least be given a try out. All to often on the jumps horses steal unfair advantages, can you imagine if on the flat a horse like Rievaulx World stole 5 lengths as the tapes went up around Chester, it would be an outrage! Saying that he’d probably still struggle to get home
I suppose the issue isn’t as much as there would be an advantage from a stall position like it would on the flat but to get them to start at the same time and in a line, for that reason I think it would be an interesting experiment.
At most tracks, the width of the course at the start would be a major problem, especially where the first obstacle comes quickly after the start. It wouldn’t be practical to have the horses from the outside stalls effectively starting from outside the wings of the first fence or hurdle and then having to squeeze the horses in the middle to find room.
You also need somewhere to move the stalls to after the start – where would that be for the 2M start at Cartmel?
Somewhere down the high street, inside the sticky toffee shop, or the back garden of that cottage by the start!And when conditions are as bad as they were at Uttoxeter on Saturday, you’d have to get the horses loaded and away pretty quick sharp before the stalls sink into the quicksand and disappear from view ….
AP
great idea Corm , but the practical side of things as AP has pointed out are just not viableUnless of course you introduce some hurdles on the Rowley course, that would be interesting …….some 10f straight mile hurdles , or indeed some 2 mile chases ……..racing for change could do worse ,might actually get some people to go , unless of course they charge 45 quid per head as they are wont to do ….
Ricky
The horses that would be immediately inconvenienced by such an innovation would be those who were switched to jumps having failed to enter the stalls and / or failed stalls tests in the first place.
Ostensibly you could argue that such an animal has little to offer the game if it’s that recalcitrant as not to put up with one of the fundamental parts of it, but then recalcitrance has never been a copper-bottomed pointer to inability – noted stalls shirkers such as Tidal Fury have proved that when switched to stalls-free hurdles.
Notwithstanding that, maybe there is a place for certain types of jumps race to be stalls-started at certain types of year, and one that springs to mind immediately is early season juvenile hurdles.
I’m one of the fiercest proponents of summer jumping on these boards, I’ll wager, and would be no keener to see 3yo June and July hurdle races discontinued than any other race at that time of year. At the same time, however, I’m not entirely sure that these races over some of the sharpest 2m courses in the country (hello Stratford) really ought to be decided quite as often as they are by one of the Flat recruits (many of whom are often reappearing barely a fortnight since their last Flat run) having learned or guessed to point the right way as the tapes go back a few seconds before anything else, and never getting headed thereafter.
Stalls would in that case offer a more equitable start to races, which seems to be what is asked for here. They can be quietly phased out during jump racing’s quietest month of September, after which it’s jumps racing terms in jumps races for (largely) jumps-bred horses, ta!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
It’s trying to fix a problem that, for the most part, doesn’t exist.
For even suggesting such Flattie nonsense for Jumps races, Cormack should be stripped, have a Star of David painted across his ar*se, and dragged through the streets of Gaza behind a tractor!
I defy anyone to find a set of stalls that would accomodate Liz Harrison trained Liz’s Dream. The gelding is huge, the biggest I’ve seen runnnig this season and wouldn’t fit in a standard sized stall. Therein lies one problem. In the main jumpers are bigger than flat horses, particularly ‘jumps bred’ chasers, and would need larger stalls.
As AP inferred, at many winter meetings much time would be spent digging the stalls out of the ruts and repairing the subsequent damage.
Rob
A complete waste of time.
Thinking about this, there are also lots of instances when fields are set off ‘unfairly, with certain horses given an advantage, albeit not deliberately, which seems bound to continue occurring while we have the type of start we do now.
Many times its not "unfairly" it "deliberately" as in triers to the front please. Most horses losing 10-15 lengths unfairly at the start have ample time to make it back even over the minimum 2 miles, its only 3-4 seconds after all.
Anyone who thinks stalls would make a difference to how trainers race their National Hunt horses need only look at the starts of the Ferdy Murphy horses at Southwell recently.
I’d like to see more resources put into dealing with starters who don’t do the job properly as well as going after trainers/jockeys who never put the horse in the race in the first place. Would be money better spent than on starting stalls for jumpers imo.
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Could you imagine faxing this idea to Paul Nicholls, he’d probally think April fools come early.
To be fair I accept you are trying hard to help the sport with new ideas but lets leave fences and stalls in their respective segment.
Why not have starting stall races on the Rowley Mile?
Set a safety limit of thirty six stalls spread across the track. Split the standard stalls set up into six sets of six giving six teams, with one person inside each stall pushing it along for, say, three furlongs. The stalls can be painted in luminous colours. The team possibilities are endless:
Brians/Bens.
Trainers.
Us Forum Nobodies.
Racing Celebrities.
Mascots.
Stag Parties.You can use bigger wheels on either side of the stalls to maintain balance, like they do on monster trucks. Mick Fitzgerald can commentate. To simulate hurdles, plastic moulded humps appear every half furlong.
Its a winnUH, gents, it really is.
I fear Cormack15 is having another senior moment. Last week it was banning whips, this week it’s N.H. stalls. Please, please, the whole character and spectacle of jump racing is built upon these ‘potentials for drama’ whether that be refusing to jump, whipping round at the start, taking the wrong course, unseating at the last etc.
Next, Corm will be suggesting that all horses should run in their allotted lanes for the first circuit!
What is more exciting than having had a ton on the favourite only to see it facing the wrong way at the off.
Are you also suggesting Corm that Mr. Culhane should be brought in to give expert advice to N.H. jockeys as to how to exit the stalls?I don’t think a horse should be forever disqualified from jumps racing because they won’t go into starting stalls.
It’s as simple as that for me.
Back to the drawing board for me then.
I think such ideas are probably just a manifestation of a subconscious desire to chip away at the Cheltenham Gold Cup until it ends up being run at Epsom, over a mile and a half, for three year olds, on the first Saturday (or Monday if it’s a coronation anniversary) of June.
No no ,Corm – don’t be so easily deterred!
If not stalls, the certainly some other contraption that would ensure a fair start to each and every NH race from now till the end of days.
The starter can have too much influence on occasions.
Max , top quality I am still laughing , and indeed I guess Corms initial post was a bit of premature April the 1st material
But on a serious note , I am a serious advocate of much more mixed cards for the racing public to enjoy
The possibilities are endless , so please racing for change pleae consider it , 8 races , 4 good quality flat and 4 cracking jump contests , Ascot , Sandown , Newbury
or Doncaster …..just give it a go , I bet the response will be darn good ,,,and please make it value for money to gain admission , we need new victims ……lets make sure we get them interested
cheers
Ricky
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