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After Cyrname’s impressive victory yesterday, I remembered his sire Nickname, who was a soft-ground specialist in Ireland in the 1990s (I think). Just wondering how many full horses are jumpers. Monksfield was one of my all-time favourites, I saw him many time times; even lugging big weights in handicaps on heavy ground (there were fewer conditions races then) he was always a battler.
But had a number of questions? Were his battling qualities related to being a full horse, + and therefore with more testosterone? Is it fair for full horses to compete against geldings? Is it difficult for full horse to jump with the same freedom, due to their “equipment?” Are full horses less manageable. and is that why they are gelded?
I tried to google this without success, so I’d appreciate some informed opinionsAs far as I’ve noticed, entire males are a rarity running in British Isles NH racing and being gelded keeps them on the ‘straight and narrow’. Midnight Legend and Moonax were sires who ran on the flat and jumps and there are surely others. This seems to be more prevalent in France with Kap Rock, Kapgarde & Dom Alco coming to mind and I’m sure there are plenty other French jumpers who became sires.
Alderbrook is the one that sprang to my mind, plus Grand National winner Battleship. I remember John Francombe talking about this and suggesting that most entire horses were reluctant jumpers for fear of hurting themselves. Of course that wasn’t quite how he put it – something along the lines of “worried about leaving their bo**cks on the top of the fence”!
Personally I think it is a culture thing, and just not done in UK/Ireland as a rule. Colts vary in temperament, with some extremely screechy and tricky, others you would not know from geldings. Plenty of sport horses compete as full horses without issue, and local to us we have a couple of stallions that hunt. Willie Mullins had a decent chaser called Financial Reward a few years back, and it’s a shame we don’t have more. Jump talent appears to be hereditary, since certain sires pass it on (and others not!)
Dahlia1973 – a couple more sires who had top-class NH form in France were Saint des Saints and Roselier. There is much more emphasis on running jumpers at a young age in France, which probably makes it more practical to have both a successful racing career and a successful stud career.
Jumping ability – as Louise says – is inherited. Other equestrian sports have recognised this for decades. Many sports horse breeding programmes require potential stallions to pass jumping tests to become accredited jumping stallions. That so many top chasers have French sires that have shown their jumping ability on the racecourse cannot be a coincidence. The racecourse jumping test is the TB equivalent of the sports horse stallion testing competitions. In GB and Ireland, though, ‘failed’ flat stallions or staying flat horses are consigned to NH breeding without any consideration of whether they can actually jump at all. That worries me – and it worries me even more that very large numbers of these horses are being bred on very similar lines. What happens to steeplechasing down the line if large numbers of these horses can’t jump a fence?
Balko is the most recent of excellent sires that has raced over jumps in France and Midnight Legend UK. I believe its the breeders that determine where the stallion will ultimately find its place. If your breeding from a NH mare you will be looking more towards distance horses – I will be interested to see how Wings of Eagles finds his place, having stood in Normandy he will have had a selection of flat/NH mares. Certainly Montmartre has erred towards the NH sector.
Interesting to see a full colt as favourite for a Grade 1 over hurdles tomorrow. A rare occurrence indeed.
Well Spotted TheGun,
Leopardstown latest: The Live Tipster
That was impressive from Sir Erec.He jumped slickly on the way to that success and showed a smart turn of speed to settle the issue after the last.
The one note of caution is that he had the run of the race from the front and everything went his way, but he couldn’t have done it any easier and will now be right at the head of the market for the Triumph Hurdle at Cheltenham next month.
Owned by J P Mc Manus, be interesting to see which stud he ends up in ?
I think this is rather coincidence than the plan. According to Joseph O’Brien the reason for not cutting him was the fact that he came very late in the season and there would have been no time to recover after an operation.
Now Joseph seems already to be the master of the juvenile division and I really hope he can change that bad habit of just cutting everything his owner gets from the Flat. Just think of those potential NH stallions – with a Flat rating of around 100 – that could be transferred to jumps racing. It should have been done a lot earlier, like it’s done in France or other equine sports.
Good luck Joseph and let’s hope some breeders/owners wake up and think twice before performing a gelding operation. It’s always worth a try with a 3 or 4-year old colt. In the end it’s not their balls, I know.
It’s not that uncommon for colts to run in the juvenile hurdle ranks (3yo + 4yo) — however, it’s much rarer for 5yo and upwards entires to run in Nov Hurdles etc. Sir Erec is rated 105 on the flat so possibly connections are looking to a future stallion career and wouldn’t surprise me if he runs in 14f+ group races in the British Isles.
A bit off topic but who doesn’t love a foal picture? Here’s Annie Power with her new baby!
IT'S A BOY – the first picture
MUM – Annie Power. Champion Hurdler. 15 wins from 17 races
1111111/1112/1F/1111/DAD – Galileo. Derby winner. 6 victories from 8 races. Super stallion
1/1111126/SON – Could be anything
Mother and child – pictured @coolmorestud – doing well pic.twitter.com/1Dixj1fzu4
— Honest Frank (@HonestFrank) February 5, 2019
Article today prompted by speculation about Sir Erec
In This World, second favourite for the Triumph, still has his junk as does Midnight’s Legacy; who has deliberately been kept entire so as to replace his own father. The Milton Harris trained Khan is another winning entire this season.
I have been compiling a list of stallions who raced over jumps (or jumpers who went on to have progeny) and this is what I have so far. I am sure there is a load that I have missed…
Afzal
Ahua
Albert du Berlais
Altountash
Antarctique
Arctic Slave
Balko
Ballet Master
Baron Blakeney
Beaumec de Houelle
Beyssac
Bimsey
Blue Bresil
Bonbon Rose
Brave Mansonnien
Broadsword
Buck’s Boum
Caballo Raptor
Cadoubel
Cantab
Carmont
Celtic Cone
Choeur du Nord
Chickawicka
Clovis du Berlais
Cokoriko
Convinced
Corrouge
Country Retreat
Cyborg
Cynic
Dabistan
Decent Fellow
Deep Run
Denham Red
Discover d’Auteuil
Dom Alco
Dreams End
Dromod Hill
Dusky Boy
Eborneezer
Evening World
Faucon Noir
Fortina
Financial Reward
Framlington Court
Gaspard de la Nuit
Gemix
Go Between
Gokai
Gombos
Gran Alba
Grand Seigneur
Grand Tresor
Great Pretender
Harwell
Honour Bound
Ikdam
Ilbarritz
I’m Supposin
Indian River
Jamesmead
Jeu St Eloi
Kadalko
Kadastrof
Kapgarde
Kap Rock
Kidder
Kizitca
Korok
Kotky Bleu
Kulnine
Last Of The Dandies
Laveron
Le Malemortois
Le Paillon
Legal Tender
Les Roseaux
Lute Antique
Magnus
Maille Pistol
Maiymad
Malfaiteur
Manicou
Maresca Sorrento
Midnight Legend
Mister Jack
Moises Has
Monksfield
Morespeed
Mr Kalandi
Network
Nickname
Nidor
Nirvana du Berlais
Nom de d’La
Nomadic Way
Nononito
Norburn
Orbis
Pedege
Petillo
Pot d’Or
Princeton
Quitte et Passe
Rainwatch
Ra Nova
Reasonable Choice
Red Guest
Red Paradise
Refutation
Robin Des Champs
Robin Des Pres
Roselier
Royal Vulcan
Saint Des Saints
Saint Preuil
Sassanian
Saucy Kit
Shafoun
Sheyrann
Singasinga
Singleton
Sleeping Car
Slickly Royal
Spadoun
Spartan General
Start Fast
Straight Lad
Tiger Groom
Tigerwood
Trebrook
True Brave
Vestris Abu
Vic Toto
Voiladenuo
Villez
Vulgan
Walk In The Park
Wellbeing
What A Joy
Wild Risk
YaheebAlderbrook for one BH!
Rather disappointed that impeccably bred NH horses (Facile Vega being a recent example) are gelded before they even see a racecourse. Could be very good reasons of course but I am sure that most of the time it’s just “because that’s how it’s always been”. It denies jump breeding the chance to improve soundness & jumping ability.
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