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Shishkin’s next target

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Viewing 17 posts - 35 through 51 (of 69 total)
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  • #1630325
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    • Total Posts 34723

    “Heartwarming to know I wasn’t the only TRF member that was at Cheltenham last year on the Wednesday when it was weather that would of made north eastern India look like the Sahara desert!”

    Not only did I lose my jackpot.. Had Shishkin at 33’s down but I had to spend money on new clothes just to drive home as the clothes I went with are still hanging on the washing line, such was how wet they got

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1630327
    Marlingford
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    • Total Posts 1906

    Ian, do you think the racing media are in the wrong for asking questions about Shishkin? It seems like a good thing to me, and that they are doing their job! I know you have worked in the industry though, so perhaps this is a more nuanced subject than I am appreciating.

    I get very frustrated when there are no updates on racing’s stars, especially when some stables do not seem to be very forthcoming with the press. For example, it is not uncommon to learn that quite big name horses have been retired by looking at the BHA’s non-racing agreements list, rather than because it has been reported in the media.

    Henderson always has the option of saying he doesn’t know what the problem is if that’s the case, though I appreciate some trainers will not want to do this for PR reasons.

    #1630338
    Avatar photoIanDavies
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 12996

    I’ve got absolutely no stats on this – what I wrote is just an impression.

    But back in the day it seemed to me that the focus of the racing media was tipped far more towards the day’s/upcoming Saturday’s racing than it was on future targets, notably the Cheltenham Festival.

    Readers weren’t being constantly told on a daily basis what Night Nurse had had for breakfast or how Sea Pigeon’s recovery from injury was going.

    The Cheltenham Festival was important, but it was but a part of the season.

    And that’s what this is all about – Shishkin is a horse who might or might not run at the March Festival.

    He’s certainly not running today, tomorrow, or this weekend, is he?

    I generally embrace change – I don’t mind the four-day Festival, I don’t mind literally every race at it having an ante-post market, many punters like having a portfolio of bets for it.

    But the media coverage of it is out of all proportion now.

    If the football media were solely focussed on the World Cup and after every match, the only angle was: could today’s player of the match one day be part of a World Cup winning side they’d be laughed out of town.

    Club football and the result on the day MATTERS most of all to football fans.

    And I still think this week’s racing, whatever the week, matters most to followers of racing.

    I wish Shishkin well, but honestly – please! – enough!

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1630345
    apracing
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    • Total Posts 4009

    But it really isn’t the media contacting Henderson is it – it’s Henderson broadcasting info via the blog he gets paid to produce by a bookmaker. Here’s the latest offering, which provides the update about Shishkin:

    https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/horse-racing/nicky-henderson-no-saturday-runners-but-an-update-on-a-few-of-the-stable-stars/

    #1630347
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    • Total Posts 12996

    But surely it’s the same principle, Alan.

    Whether it’s the Racing Post news desk or the broadcast team at Unibet, it’s them proactively asking the questions and Nicky Henderson reactively giving the answers.

    If everyone – whether racing media or those you allude to – generating this content stopped asking questions that are ultimately myopically-focussed on the Cheltenham Festival, Henderson would cease to talk about it.

    Others set the agenda, not him.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
    It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"

    #1630351
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 6337

    Hey Nathan, a slipped palate and a displaced one are the same thing. That article link I posted earlier is educational, especially on the surgical solutions, and that’s why I thought a reporter should have dived deeper.

    A part of the loose skin of the fleshy palate flips onto the epiglottis (the part which opens the food channel when eating and closes the airway) causing a partial air way blockage.

    One of the fixes is a Hobday operation where the loose skin is surgically shortened so it can no longer flip. The other solution is a tie back, where the loose skin is stitched into a fixed position. The Hobday cannot come undone; the tieback can. That is something a punter ought to be told, imo.

    #1630383
    LD73
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    • Total Posts 4134

    Internet/media age has vast benefits and many drawbacks in that information is so much more readily accessible to the masses on various devices.

    Back in the day it was basically one or two racing correspondents from the Sporting Life and/or a few other newspapers that would root out a ‘scoop’ on a horse in the big yards and all with a rather clandestine air about it due to the old school trainers rarely interacting with anyone outside the yard…in some cases even the owners would get little information about their horse’s day to day well being.

    Now where the new breed of trainers are much more media savy (dragging along the last remanents of the more old school trainers into the new age) and keep everyone updated almost on a daily basis with websites/open days/stable tours/interviews etc the time where trainers could basically give short shrift to questions from outside sources is long gone. God could you just imagine how dim the view the likes of a Fred Winter, Fred Rimell, Fulke Walwyn, Peter Easterby and David Nicholson would have on the media intrusion to their daily training lives…….

    I don’t think the Cheltenham Festival is any more important than it was in the past it is simply a fact that it is now much more openly discussed from more sources that engages more of the racing public because of the media access to the sports participants and as such it seems to give a greater impression that it is the be all end all for NH racing.

    I do think that Hendo being somewhat more from the old school has embraced it much more than some of his contemporaries have/would have had they still been around training.

    #1630454
    Marlingford
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    • Total Posts 1906

    Thanks for replying to me Ian. Am always interested to know your take, even when our views are not fully aligned!

    My interest in Shishkin’s current condition and future isn’t confined to just his Cheltenham prospects. He’s a star racehorse and I’m pleased to be hearing about him regularly.

    I have a fear that in modern times the media have become a scapegoat for many ills (not just in racing). To some extent I don’t think they can win. Even in this fairly short thread we have people accusing them of not being probing enough, and also of them asking too much and stirring things up.

    I’m totally in favour of celebrating the big races throughout the season and not viewing them as mere stepping stones to Cheltenham. However, I think this is where racing and betting being linked so deeply presents issues.

    Football has legions of fans who will follow it passionately without ever betting on it. Racing does have some people who love the sport for itself, but many of its followers have an interest that is led by betting. I think this is what leads to a much heavier focus on future plans, and the media are asking the questions that the majority want to be asked. This happens on the Flat too e.g. will the Derby winner go on to the Irish Derby, King George etc.

    I think Cheltenham has dominated the Jumps for decades, and believe LD73 is correct in the assessment that it seems more so nowadays because there is so much more airtime and column inches to fill. Modern training methods have sadly also added to this domination significantly. There are clearly serious issues to fix here, but I see the media as more being a reflection of the problems than the cause.

    #1630460
    Avatar photoIanDavies
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 12996

    You’re welcome, as always.

    I also think there’s a lot of truth in what LD73 says.

    Back in the day, on a midweek day, you’d have Sporting Life, Sporting Chronicle, PA staff and any national newspaper racing correspondents who had persuaded the sports and racing editor of the merit of sending them there at a meeting and that was the focus for the article.

    They also were less interested in the “human story” and more interested in the betting angle when asking after questions – where might the horse run next? What might it’s ideal trip and ground be? The sort of question punters are interested in as opposed to “this will be a tonic for the owner’s poorly poodle who has been off his dog biscuits lately.

    Racing journalism was much about betting a lot more back then and it wasn’t usually trying to be anything else.

    I do worry that the racing media can’t love racing for what it is, and is constantly trying to turn it into something it historically isn’t.

    The obsession to the virtual exclusion of all else with the Cheltenham Festival exemplifies that in my view.

    The Jumps season used to be so much more.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1631021
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    • Total Posts 6651

    So Nicky is aiming for the Ascot Chase on 18th February.

    2/7 he doesn’t run.

    #1631023
    Avatar photoIanDavies
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 12996

    Dunvegan, four lengths behind Shishkin at Sandown Park, was nine lengths runner up today at Fairyhouse off an Irish OR of 158.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1631025
    Tizaaards Cider
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    • Total Posts 970

    I’m actually going that day as well!

    Pic D’orhy will probably be a decent bet against him that day as it’s likely the bookies will have him priced as though the last 2 runs never happened!

    #1631063
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
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    • Total Posts 34723

    How would you price a match bet between the two?

    Shishkin has looked as if a step up in distance wouldn’t be the worse thing in the world and despite the big mistake in the tingle creek was still staying on at the end. Aintree was pushed along from early to avoid a sprint. Stayed on strong in Cheltenham races Supreme and Arkle before last years no show. Only horse to beat Energumene in the Clarence house finishing strong in a proper slog of a race.

    Pic D’Orhy in the form of his life and improving. Not won at the top level but a horse he has beat more than once Millers Bank has. Ascot, left handed is right up his street.

    form against class/redemption

    Nathbet goes

    4/6 Pic D’Orhy
    97/100 Shishkin max bet £2

    I agree the bookies will go Shishkin as if his last two runs didn’t happen.

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1631066
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    • Total Posts 12996

    “I agree the bookies will go Shishkin as if his last two runs didn’t happen.”

    In a world where many pundits and punters will do the exact same thing with the ludicrous expression: “you can draw a line through that” the bookies can get away with it.

    A bad run is a bad run is a bad run – “excuses, mexcuses” – there’s a question mark over any horse that had a below-par run last time out and it and needs to be a bigger price next time out on the back of it.

    Bookies love punters who will make excuses for beaten horses and accept a short price about them next time out – lemmings!

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1631093
    LD73
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    • Total Posts 4134

    If I really had to choose between the two it would be Shishkin, he would have to massively underperform (as even a repeat of his Tingle Creek run would be sufficient) as Pic D’Orhy to me is a G2 horse at best.

    To me he is the kind of horse who will have his limitations exposed against G1 horses and his two previous runs at G1 resulted in him being pulled up behind Millers Bank (reportedley made a noise so you can forgiven him that run) and a 27L drubbing from L’Homme Presse in the Scilly Isles Chase.

    It will be interesting to see who else will actually turn up for the race.

    #1631097
    Avatar photoHe Didnt Like Ground
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    • Total Posts 9105

    I honestly believe this will be a lost season akin to what Sprintre sacre and Cue Card had , I think they,ve jumped away from 2 miles far to quickly , one more run then get him away and get a summer on his back , hopefully they can get him back

    Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026

    #1635346
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    • Total Posts 6651

    Will he turn up at Ascot on Saturday, or will the ground be too firm/ too soft, or some other mystery ailment discovered? :unsure:

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