- This topic has 30 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 18 years ago by
.
- Posts
- Total Posts 17716
If you asked Lester which of his Derby Winners ws the best he never hesiatetes in naming Sir Ivor
Not at all, Fist, he has always vacillated between Sir Ivor and Nijinsky!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2001/may/06/features.sportmonthlyFor some reason, Lester felt a closer affinity to Raymond Guest’s Sir Ivor than he did Nijinsky. He always felt that Nijinsky was very much the Vincent O’ Brien/ Charles Engelhard baby, if you like. But he has changed his mind over the years as to which one he though was the best – though he did say that on the day Nijinsky won the King George & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes, that he was better than any horse he had sat on – before or since.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
He was a great horse except at Doncaster where he got beaten in the Futurity Stakes and the St Leger.
My own little story concerned the Kris Plate at Newbury in September 1980.
I had close connections to the Ron Sheather yard and Chief Speaker was considered to be something to have a serious bet on. The money was down at 12/1 and as he made steady headway 3 out, under Ray Cochrane, we were beginning to count our money. He did run on well but not well enough though because – some 2 1/2 lengths ahead at the time – was a debutant from the Stoute stable. Shergar, ridden by Lester, had been fancied and went off 11/8 favourite.
Good job we backed Chief Speaker each-way….
Lester often put up Crepello as his best Derby winner and I’ve even heard him say "The Minstrel" in one interview.
A wicked sense of humour that Lester!
Shergar was a superb machine of a horse in the spring of ’81 but a couple of things will always prevent him from getting too much praise form the serious pundits.
Firstly, the competition. Can there have been a more mediocre bunch than the horses that Shergar was beating that year?
Not many years were that poor. The older horses that he took on in the KG were no great shakes, either. To put his achievements in perspective he needed another top-notcher to race against and never got it.
Secondly, the fact that he scored all his devastating victories in a short few weeks. Like Nashwan and Grundy he’d pretty much "gone" after (or possibly during) the KG and was never seen at his best again. Toughness has to be part of the make-up of a truly top class horse (IMO).A true heavenly body who lit up the skies for a short while but was gone all too quickly
The way he jumped into the sea at the end of the film showed what a shame he never ran over fences as he’d have been a natural.
Surely one of the measures of a great horse is how he passes it on to his progeny? And, as far as I know, Shergar didn’t.
I know he only had a short time at stud before he was kidnapped, but I remember everyone getting excited about how good his "get" were going to be…..and how disappointed they all were when none of them were anything special…
"Surely one of the measures of a great horse is how he passes it on to his progeny?"
That would be the measure of a great stallion, surely?
Plenty of great stallions weren’t that ‘great’ as racehorses and I would suggest that being a great racehorse has very little to do with how that racehorse does at stud.
Colin
Surely one of the measures of a great horse is how he passes it on to his progeny? And, as far as I know, Shergar didn’t.
(
I don’t really hold with this belief. First and foremost, I consider a racehorse’s true merit and worth by what he or she achieves on the racecourse.
Sea Bird and Brigadier Gerard’s progeny, apart from one ot two exceptions, did not set the heather on fire – but both were outstanding champions.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
PPG, who are these “serious pundits” to which you refer?
Colin
Well there’s…I know TF rate him quite highly but most would not put him right at the top with Sea Bird, Nijinsky, Mill Reef and even Galileo would they? I feel that he deserves to be based on his Sandown/Chester/Epsom and Curragh performances but as I said earlier it’s hard to get full credit when you’re racing against relatively mediocre opposition.
As regards his stallion prowess, he did get Cigar-unfortunately it wasn’t that one- it was Cigar (GB) who went on to sire Smoking Beau.
Shergar, I think, got a horse called Authaal who won a couple of Group 3’s but like that other son of Great Nephew, Grundy, Shergar seems to not be likely to have been a particularly good sire given the nice book of mares that he received in his only season at stud.
[/b]It’s a bit unfair to crab Shergar’s stud record on the evidence of thirty-odd foals.
Domino’s record set a standard for severely attenuated stud careers which will never be matched, never mind surpassed, so you’ve got to give Shergar the benefit of the doubt, rather than write him off as a failure. It’s impossible to say how he would have turned out.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.