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Given the informative and popular thread on Frankel, I would like to consider another great 21C racehorse. What do people think of his stallion career so far?
Good points:
– early start showstoppers: Taghrooda and Harzand
– capacity for progeny to train on: 4yo G1 winners Mutakayyek and Cloth of Stars
– produced a G1 miler showing not a middle-distance one-trick-pony: Mutakayyef
– decent total of G1 wins to date: 6 individual G1 winners of 10 G1 races worldwide
– stud fee has risen since Y1 showing demand must still be there: EUR125k – 2017Weak points:
– propensity for top middle distance progeny may count against him in these speed-coveting times (11f average): top 2017 3yos competing in middle to long distance races: Stradivarius and Crystal Ocean
– average sale price fallen year-on-year since 2014Grateful to hear people’s views – thanks.
I think you called it with that post, Archipenko (welcome to the forum btw!). Do you have a mare at home and £125,000 in your pocket?
A very good versatile stallion producing tough horses 1m – 2m, many of whom improve with age. Generally produces horses who aren’t ground-dependent. Good foals-to-runners ratio. Like you say, those aren’t the most commercial qualities for a stallion nowadays (few 2yo runners/winners) but the steady stream of G1 horses is keeping his fee up. I think he’ll be an influential sire, especially if anything happens to Galileo in the next few years. Coolmore still don’t have a convincing heir to Galileo/Montjeu so presumably they’ll send mares to STS when the Galileo factory finally closes down. Apart from Fastnet Rock, Camelot, Excelebration, Australia and Zoffany, they’re not trusting many of their own stallions with their own mares at the moment.
Breeding Galileo to sprint mares seems like a magic formula right now. As far as I can see, not many breeders have tried this angle with his half-brother Sea The Stars yet…
The sprint mare/STS cross would be intriguing. However, I suspect that the owners of such mares are taking a commercial view as between Galileo and his half-brother and going the tried-and-tested route.
Given STS was not exactly a precocious 2yo (although he did win the Beresford), it is not surprising his progeny take time. But the pay-off comes when you get a horse that wins into its 4/5yo seasons. By contrast, with a War Front you are pretty much done after their 2yo season!
Having looked at the nicks stats on RP, STS is 7/10 winners/runners with Danehill – which is the purported magic formula with Galileo. Interestingly he is 5/5 with Montjeu and 4/4 with Mark of Esteem.
In light of Knight To Behold’s rather taking win yesterday – I though I would resurrect this thread.
Are there are any other big STS fans out there who would like to discuss his progeny?
Going into the Lingfield Derby Trial the only horse I knew about was Kew Gardens. When KTB was sent forward at half-way I thought … nice move but that is going to be reeled back in close home.
Then he just kept galloping to the line and my eye was caught. After looking up his pedigree on RP I was delighted to discover he was by my all-time favourite STS. How exciting for my boy to have another classic prospect.
KTB has a fair bit of stamina on the distaff side and he looks to have a good engine. It is hard to guage where he might be against the better Coolmore prospects, as after the race I would say KG is rather ordinary.
I will certainly be following KTB going forward. As I will Crystal Ocean, who was a cosy winner of the Gordon Richards Stakes. Given the speed on his distaff side I would hope that – although he was campaigned for the St Leger last year – Sir Michael Stoute will keep him at 10/12f this year.
Anybody got any other interesting STS offspring to report?
Loved him as a racehorse and got to see him in the flesh at York. It seemed that everytime his merit was/is discussed on forums he gets knocked down by people making comparisons with Dancing Brave, and the horses they beat (particularly in their Guineas and Arc’s). Don’t think they ever got to the bottom of Sea The Stars as he wasn’t flashy and left the feeling that there was always plenty of reserves left in the tank. The Arc victory should always be seen in light of the energy he was wasting when not settling early on, and he still won with plenty in hand.
As a side note, it will be interesting to see how Sea The Moon fares in his stallion career. He has his first runners this year though no doubt they’ll need some time. Sea The Moon was receiving single figure quotes for the 2014 Arc after winning the German Derby in mighty impressive style(On YouTube and there is one version on there they have accompanied by corny music which I would not recommend !) but was beaten when odds-on in the big Baden Baden race, got injured and never ran again. He is standing at the Lanwades Stud in Newmarket.
Am expecting Crystal Ocean to improve markedly in typical Stoute style and would not be surprised if he finished the season very closely matched with everyone’s darling of the moment, Cracksman.
Thanks for your comment CANCELLO. It is great that SEA THE MOON stands in Newmarket – I must visit. My dream is to see STS himself at Giltown.
Nice performance from Stradivarius in the Yorkshire Cup yesterday. He is beautiful looking colt who is shaping into a class stayer. Hopefully he can reverse the form with ORDER OF SAINT GEORGE.
Is there anywhere I could watch a replay?
I see that CRYSTAL OCEAN runs today in the Al Rayyan Stakes (G3). Back over a longer trip he may be more convincing. As long as he wins I will be happy.
Are there any other nice STS 3yos – home or abroad?
“Nice performance from Stradivarius in the Yorkshire Cup yesterday. He is beautiful looking colt who is shaping into a class stayer. Hopefully he can reverse the form with ORDER OF SAINT GEORGE.
Is there anywhere I could watch a replay?”
Racing UK have the full replay available on their website https://www.racinguk.com/results/165439-mansionbet-yorkshire-cup-group-2-1
If you don’t have an account with them you can also see a clip of the finish on their Twitter feed https://twitter.com/Racing_UK/status/997749046470103040?s=20
The full race video for Stradivarius is also freely available at:
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/race-replays/3/80202/
Yesterday there was a very promising winner for Sea The Stars at Newbury called Al Muffrih. His dam, Scarlet and Gold, is a half-sister to French Derby winner Le Havre who is now a very successful sire, standing at 60,000 Euros. Al Muffrih’s race is at:
Archi, belated welcome to TRF.
I’ll move this thread to “Trends Research, and Notebooks”, but not until I know you’ve seen this post.
Best of luck with it, and I hope you can dig out a few good ones.
Ps sending message
Good thread Archipenko! Sea The Stars is one of my favourite sires. He produces such classy horses – Taghrooda my favourite so far. In Stradivarius and Crystal Ocean he has two sure-fire Group 1 winners. I’ll be interested to see how Sea Of Class goes today at Newbury. She is still a maiden but is clearly well regarded as she is running in a listed race and is second favourite. Could even still enter the Oaks equation in an open year. Best of luck with the thread and enjoy seeing all those STS winners!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Thank you VENTURE TO COGNAC.
Would it be possible to keep the thread here please?
Completely understand you organise the forum a certain way. I would just worry that activity on the thread would die after being moved.
Fewer people seem to read the “Trends, Research and Notebooks” section. I just want to promote SEA THE STARS and talk to people about him. Having the thread in “Horse Racing” will keep bringing it to people’s attention.
No worries if you want to move it though
There you go Archi – Sea Of Class – another star in the making!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Delighted to see a thread on STS, Archipenko – he had everything as a racehorse; the opposition tried hard to find a chink in his armour, but he was absolutely bombproof, and a true champion. He seems to pass that on to his progeny, and my guess is that they will outlast some of the flashier influences (both individually and as a legacy).
Broad Street (5.20 Navan) and Celestial Force (5.40 Thirsk) also won to round off a good day for STS. I don’t think they hold any significant entries as yet though.
ATR quote Maureen Haggas as saying they feel the Oaks may come a bit soon for Sea Of Class (but she does have an entry), or they may go to Royal Ascot with her. Will be interesting to see what they decide.
Good spot JONIBAKE with SEA OF CLASS. I will keep an eye on her. Do we know where she goes next?
Really chuffed with CRYSTAL OCEAN. I like that SMS is taking things steady and continuing to build the horse’s confidence. He is off to the Hardwicke or Prince of Wales next.
We all know that STS produces class middle distance horses. A horse that caught my eye last season was the miler MUTAKAYYEF. He looked exciting when winning the G2 Summer Mile. Sadly he then did a ligament.
Does anybody know whether he will reappear this season?
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