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Would anyone like to see a great flat horse’s superb achievements lessened or tarnished, either through bad luck, loss of form or sickness.
Well, I for one would not..
I definitely would, if it meant that we saw the best of each crop stay in training and prove themselves against the next crop. You would see some very good Classic horses (Giants Causeway is always one that appeals as a horse who would have been brilliant at 4yo) perhaps prove themselves to be true greats, rather than just a.n.other horse on a Coolmore production line.
Another point – these horses who may get injured on the racecourse at 4yo – is there not an argument to suggest that this is more likely to happen to the less sound horses and (callous as it may sound) the breed might be better off without them in the long run? (I am aware that injury and death are not always caused by poor conformation – but let’s also not forget that a Stallion can die in a field at home chewing grass)
Not a universally-held view, Reason, but darts is a sport as far as I’m concerned. I aspire to attain the same heights of peak physical condition as its practitioners one day.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I don’t see how any racing fan would fail to relish the prospect of Sea The Stars returning at 4 to take on next year’s three year olds. We’re not even very sure how good he actually is yet.
The decision is surely commercial, and you cannot blame anybody for that as we are talking about very serious financial implications. As far as his breeding career is concerned a four year old year would involve significant risk for no extra reward. It’s doubtful that a great 4-y-o year would increase his stud valuation beyond where it already sits but if he were to return and not produce the same level of performence or were to be injured badly on the racecourse or at home then someone could take a substantial hit.
Maybe the problem is that breeders and/or the yearling market doesn’t place a premium on horses proven beyond 3.
I read that STS couldn’t get insurance to travel to America, as the horse is worth so much. Can anyone shed some credible light on this? Any truth to that?
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I don’t see how any racing fan would fail to relish the prospect of Sea The Stars returning at 4 to take on next year’s three year olds. We’re not even very sure how good he actually is yet.
As this thread shows, there are plenty of racing fans who
didn’t
relish that prospect, on a variety of grounds.
We only ever know just how good a horse is when it gets beat. That’s not how a substantial proportion of racing people want to remember this particular one.
In any case, if/when Rip Van Winkle and/or Fame and Glory and/or Mastercraftsman take apart next year’s crop in the same races in which STS took them apart this year, we’ll be pretty sure how good he was.
Personally, given the previous profile of the Tsui family’s commitment, I very much doubt whether this was a commercial decision. Coolmore are the biggest commercial boys in the business, and they don’t retire everything at three by any manner of means. Quite the reverse: if anything, they’ve set the trend the other way.
Hmmm, looks like Sheik Mo won the race…. http://www.darley.co.uk/stallions/our-s … s/pedigree
Racing Post is still saying Irish National Stud is favourite to stand him. So either Darley are incredibly optimistic or the Racing Post is not on the ball.
Did you really place the name ‘Phil Taylor’ in the same sentence as ‘sportsman’?
Alongside Formula 1 and squash. Ye Gods! Let’s watch the paint dry – although darts is probably the most exciting of the lot.
GC
Did you really place the name ‘Phil Taylor’ in the same sentence as ‘sportsman’?
I lolled @ that
Just read through this thread.
As I said, love Sea The stars to continue racing at four. But totally understand the decision to “retire”. But it is not retirement, just a change of career. We can enjoy Sea the Stars through his progeny. Half brother Galileo retired after his three year old campaign; producing two classic winners and Breeders Cup winner in his first crop.
Strange, comparing flat racing to tennis, athletics, darts or even National Hunt racing.
Federer, Bolt and Taylor are not going to earn thousands of pounds in the breeding sheds. Neither is Kauto Star, Master Minded or Big Buck’s; they are geldings. Do you really think those three Champions would appear year after year if they were “fully equipped”? And could earn STS’s stud fee. The last “entire” to be a top class hurdler was Alderbrook. He hung around for only five races over hurdles before starting a stud career. Sea The Stars has a far, far more lucrative time ahead of him than Alderbrook. Or indeed Yeats, another unfair comparison. Yeats is a stayer, it’s sad but he will never be much more than a National Hunt stallion. No hope of realising anywhere near Sea The Stars stud fee.Other than stayers, the vast majority of three year olds who stay in training do so to enhance their reputation. Only way to get Champions like STS to do so is make it worth their while. STS would run the risk of injury or being beaten. In which case there’d be those who say “Oh he was not as good as we thought”. So not only does he lose revenue, not covering mares next season. But loses out from other years too, with prospective stud fees plumitting. It is difficult to imagine the covering fee increasing, even if winning multiple Group 1’s.
Some here seem to want a scrappage scheme for the weight for age table. If there were no age allowance, then no three year old would run against their elders. A colt who develops in to a top three year old; may retire even earlier if unable to compete for top money against older horses on fair terms. Weight for age has been proven over the years, it might be a pound or two wrong here and there. But don’t we want to see generations running against each other?
Something that might work is a “bonus culture”. Derby and Oaks winners getting £75,000 bonus for winning next year’s Coronation Cup, £200,000 bonus for a King George etc. Am sure bookmakers could be persuaded to put up prices for next year’s King George (over 13 months in advance), immediately after this year’s Derby. So authorities / sponsers can insure against it winning, by taking an ante-post price.
I love flat racing and jump racing for different and opposite reasons. I quite like the newness of every flat season. With two year olds never seen before and wondering who will come through to be top class three year olds. The older generation is the icing on the cake.
With jumping I like the fact so many are old friends coming back year after year. The spectacle of horses jumping. Etc.
Flat racing and jump racing are two different sports and can not be compared easily.
Value Is EverythingI have been on holiday for a week (in spain) and just back today catching up with news. Funnily enough its only by logging onto here that even know Sea The Stars has been retired (or of the death of the brilliant Inglis Drever – rip). Perhaps that tells its own story about what the rest of the world thinks…they dont care.
Anyway, back to what I wanted to say. I am no expert on horses or breeding but I understand there is a breeding season? When is the breeding season? And is it not possible for a horse to be a stallion and a racehorse?? Do the seasons massively overlap? Its a lower level, granted, but didn’t that good all-weather performer Gentlemans Deal combine racing and stallion "duties"?
The breeding season in the northern hemisphere is from Feb to early June. In the southern hemisphere from Sep to Dec. Given that most top stallions these days shuttle then there is no room for racing.
But even if a horse didn’t shuttle, it’s a hard ask to expect for them to combine duties. Remember when George Washington was put back in training and the comments from O’Brien about how he was basically on "Five legs" for the first month or so? Their minds are elsewhere, and they also get heavier and develop stallion musculature (big cresty necks etc) which are is not neccesarily the prefered body type for a racehorse. On top of that, it would take a couple of months to get a horse ready to race, so if he finished covering mares in June, he wouldn’t ready to race till Aug, maybe even Sept, so what would be the point.
But it has been done in the past. The US Triple Crown winner Assault was raced and bred. However he had incredibly low fertility so he only covered a small number of mares in the early part of the year just to see if they would take and then he went training when invariably none of them were found in foal. He did that till he was 6 or 7yo, but he had the benefit of year round racing so he could race up till Dec, even in Jan then cover mares in Feb.I remember Bill Gredley’s Enviroment Friend doing both jobs for a time.
Value Is EverythingI believe 1961 Kentucky Derby and Preakness hero Carry Back was the last classic winner of normal fertility to do this. He covered a full book of mares before his last season on the track (1963).
He was a real ‘iron horse’ of the kind you just don’t see these days, 16 runs as a 3-y-o, 61 in all.
I believe 1961 Kentucky Derby and Preakness hero Carry Back was the last classic winner of normal fertility to do this. He covered a full book of mares before his last season on the track (1963).
He was a real ‘iron horse’ of the kind you just don’t see these days, 16 runs as a 3-y-o, 61 in all.
Not to mention 21 times as a 2yo!!
Only ran 6 times in ’63 after covering mares, but still managed to finish in the money 4 times.
Tough old horse.Have to keep in mind too that a full book of mares back in the old days was 40 mares. Nowadays 150+ is not unusual. That, I’m sure, takes it’s toll.
Yes, he may have only covered 20 or 30 mares in his first season.
As you no doubt know, he ran in "only" 16 races as a 3-y-o because he sustained an injury in the Belmont, necessitating a bit of time off.
So if he’d done a Sea The Stars and retired at the end of his 3-y-o career, he would have already racked up 37 racecourse appearances!
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