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Sea The Stars Retired

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  • #253252
    Prufrock
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    • Total Posts 2081

    Get Simon Cowell on board

    I now he’s quite a wee chappie, but I’m pretty sure he would have to put up overweight.

    #253260
    jose1993
    Member
    • Total Posts 1228

    A sensible decision.
    STS is unbeaten in 6 top level races at the rate of one per month over a variety of distances this season.That should have pleased the "campaign them openly and regularly" brigade.

    He has won his classics and G1s- why hang around to see what emerges from the classic generation next season?
    Most of the older horses who remain in training do so because they haven’t won their classics.

    Well it hasn’t pleased me because the fact remains he’s had 9 races in his whole life.

    The reason he should hang around for the next classic generation is because there might be another STS. The idea is that the championship weight for age races become exactly that. Champions of generations clashing so people can stop deriding Arc winning form by saying things like, "STS only beat Youmzain, Calvaryman and Conduit." They’re all good horses but I find it hard to perceive any of them as champions. As it stands, should we just make races like the Arc 3 Year Old Only contests?

    #253261
    Avatar photoAndyRAC
    Participant
    • Total Posts 750

    Oh I’m so surprised and shocked, er actually I’m not. How utterly predictable. Flat racing just doesn’t get it, sod the sporting side, let’s just rake in the $£$£$£$. A once in a generation horse and a whole new lot of fans of the sport – and this happens. As others have said, they must think "What kind of a sport is this?" Flat racing will never grip ‘Joe Public’ while this continues to happen. As far as I’m concerned, Yeats is more of a star than STS.

    #253265
    Avatar photoRacing Daily
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1416

    I agree, but I have learned to live with the dissapointments that us purists have to accept..

    The first step is for Racing to accept the fact that the "inevitably" of horses such as STS retiring at the age of 3 damages the sport to a very significant degree.

    Then – rather than shrugging shoulders and trotting out all the cliches about "money ruling" – actually knock some heads together and DO something about it. Why not provide some real incentives to keep potential Stallions in training at 4yo?

    Some ideas
    a) (stolen from above) – scrap wfa for the best races and make the all-aged G1s level weight races for all horses 3yo+. These races should be determining which is the best horse – the idea of factoring in some assumed immaturity is pretty absurd (imagine the equivalent in human athetics – giving some 16yo a 5 metre headstart in the 100m and declaring him a champion "with nothing left to prove" for beating his elders – ridiculous!)

    b) restrict certain valuable races to horses sired by Stallions who won a Group race at the age of 4+ (do this for the Classics if you really want it to work!)

    c) Impose a stallion fee "cap" on horses who didn’t win a Group race at 4+

    I’ve got another idea. Make the winner’s purse for group races worth winning. ATM, a G3 race in the UK is worth roughly the same as a seller in the states. Is it any wonder that the US raiders can’t even be bothered to consider our best races when they are worth peanuts in prize money?
    £60m in the bank at stud, or a few hundred grand for winning everything on the UK calendar? Hmmmm, tough choice :roll:

    #253268
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Pardon me for being rude, but all this blather about special races and incentives for 4yo’s is fatuous fantasy.

    For one thing, which horse has pumped up gate takings on each and every appearance from the Eclipse onwards? Was it a 4yo, or an 8yo? No. It was a 3yo – and Zarkava and Rachel Alexander have had / are having the same positive impact in France and America respectively.

    Much of this desire for horses to go on and on is a Pavlov Dog response brought about by conditioning from media hype and marketing.

    Are there legions of folk rushing out to see hosts of these dear old chasing geriatrics every Saturday during the jumps season? In truth, the appeal of these hardened pensioners is limited to a few stalwart aficionados. Most of the Racing Public can take them or leave them. Personally the fear I might see them break their necks outweighs any desire to go out and cheer them through the mud.

    No. Flat Racing is different entirely. The classic colt appeals for the same reason as the perfect Boy Treble voice: for its rarity and – deepest reason of all – its evanescence. The fact that these breathtakingly fast, burnished animals are only at their peak for a brief moment or two is precisely why the sport is so beautiful to those who truly love and understand it.

    Anyone who isn’t simply greedy, anyone who doesn’t crudely believe that more is better, will be grateful that the right decision has been made for Sea The Stars.

    And our regret at his passing (from the racecourse) is tempered by joy at the prospect of seeing his progeny have their own moment in the spotlight in a year or three’s time.

    #253269
    Getzippy
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1152

    Great horse – but I do think beating the next generation of beasts is the next natural challenge if a horse is to achieve legendary status.

    Alas, It would have been great for racing…

    Zip

    #253270
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    The longevity of the boy treble voice is limited by physiology. The 3 year old racehorse hasn’t even reached maturity. I too was expecting this but felt a great sadness that he would never get the chance to prove even to the hardened cynics that he was one of the best of all time- as it is we’ll never know how he compared to the Bridagier, Sea Bird or even the likes of Alleged. It’s a massive flaw in the sport of Flat racing that the stars burn so brightly but disappear so fast and is the main reason jumping is more popular here in Ireland- the chasing geriatrics Pinza deprecates are the reason to get up in the dark winter mornings with a smile on your face wondering the magnificent twists which the narrative that is the jumps season will take that day. Familiarity is important and sadly STS was only beginning to enter the public consciousness even here in Ireland when he was retired.
    Is it in Germany that a horse has to have a certain number of starts before being allowed to stand as a stallion? What a bold move that would be.
    Understandable? Yes
    Relief? No, more like a reinforcement of the world’s materialism and cynicism.

    #253277
    Avatar photoCav
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    • Total Posts 4833

    Good post Pinza.

    The newspapers are estimating an income of 700 grand a week for the 2010 breeding season and quite possibly for the next 20 years. Which one of us would have risked an asset of that value just to prove he can concede a few pounds to 3yo’s???

    "To win the extended sprint of the Guineas and then master all the generations over the Derby trip in the Arc is a real claim on immortality."

    #253281
    Avatar photoDrone
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    • Total Posts 6022


    We greybeards rattling on about Brigadier Gerard, Mill Reef, Ribot, Alleged are perhaps in danger of forgetting that they were rare examples of 3yo top-notch colts allowed to run as 4yo.

    If anything over the last 15 years or so we have seen more high class 3yo kept in training at 4 and 5, thanks in the main to Godolphin who did/do display a ‘sporting’ attitude to the game.

    What has been interesting is the general dismay voiced on TRF and elsewhere at STS’ retirement which is something of a sea-change. I don’t recall the retirements of Sea-Bird, Nijinsky, Grundy, Troy, El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave, Nashwan etc being met with public disgruntlement; it was accepted as the norm and we (few?) grumblers kept our thoughts private.

    Good ol’ www.

    So, for me, this development is a healthy one. But I do take on board Pinza’s excellent post which only serves to highlight the myriad different ways we as individuals derive personal enjoyment from racing

    ‘Evanescence’ has been added to my Thesaurus, thanks :)

    #253284
    moehat
    Participant
    • Total Posts 9338

    The reason I love my NH racing is because I can’t wait to see my old favourites come back each year. I would normally agree with the all of the posts bemoaning the fact that we will not see Sea the Stars race as a 4 year old. However, although I can’t really explain to myself let alone other people I do feel that there is a completeness about this horses career, and I don’t feel any need for him to do more to prove anything. I honestly think he would have scared most of the opposition away next year, anyway. I also don’t think that the decision is 100% based on greed and finance. He is a big, poweful horse and I would imagine he needs a lot of work to keep him race fit, which holds danger in itself. Can any of us, with all honesty enjoy watching a horse [that we owned] risk his life on a daily basis knowing that he was worth £100,000,000? Can we not just thank the Tsuis for not only providing us with this wonderful horse, but his mother; they [and we] also have his half brother to look forward to. Something totally positive about racing seems to have become very negative.

    #253286
    thedarkknight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1299

    Pardon me for being rude, but all this blather about special races and incentives for 4yo’s is fatuous fantasy.

    For one thing, which horse has pumped up gate takings on each and every appearance from the Eclipse onwards? Was it a 4yo, or an 8yo? No. It was a 3yo – and Zarkava and Rachel Alexander have had / are having the same positive impact in France and America respectively.

    No. Flat Racing is different entirely. The classic colt appeals for the same reason as the perfect Boy Treble voice: for its rarity and – deepest reason of all – its evanescence. The fact that these breathtakingly fast, burnished animals are only at their peak for a brief moment or two is precisely why the sport is so beautiful to those who truly love and understand it.

    The reason 3yos like Zarkava and RA have sparked the interest and put crowds on the gate? Because all the other potential champions have been retired a long time ago.

    And how can one talk about horses being at their peak, when they are still receiving allowances from their elders?

    The talk about incentives to keep 4yos in training is certainly ambitious because it would take a co-ordinated worldwide effort to achieve it – but the current Pattern basically incentivises retiring immature 3yo "Champions" – I can’t see what is fatuous about wanting to see that situation addressed.

    #253289
    Withnail
    Member
    • Total Posts 28

    Not about money. Nothing left to prove.

    Absolute bollocks.

    #253293
    Avatar photograysonscolumn
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    • Total Posts 6966

    If you want to see horses come back year on year then watch ageing geldings run round Cheltenham. Who wants to see Harchibald try novice chasing at rising 11?

    Probably the same people who wanted to see Hors La Loi III give it a go at the same age and make a respectable fist of it (personal best chasing RPR 146). Every case on its merits…

    gc

    Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #253296
    Avatar photograysonscolumn
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    • Total Posts 6966

    We all start somewhere and usually, I would guess, it’s just one horse that captures young imaginations that gets us all on this road which consumes so much of our time. A youngster just getting involved could be forgiven for thinking – "what a dud sport this is".

    Not just the young, but the more casual racegoers overall. Mentioned Sea The Stars’ retirement to two mates in the pub last night, knowing they had caught his Arc win and been captivated by it. Their responses to the news were, it’s fair to say, not far removed from Ugly Mare’s example.

    gc

    Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #253297
    Avatar photoHimself
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    • Total Posts 3777

    What has been interesting is the general dismay voiced on TRF and elsewhere at STS’ retirement which is something of a sea-change. I don’t recall the retirements of Sea-Bird, Nijinsky, Grundy, Troy, El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave, Nashwan etc being met with public disgruntlement; it was accepted as the norm and we (few?) grumblers kept our thoughts private

    A salient point; and one which I had intended making. :wink:

    Let’s for argument’s sake imagine that Sea The Stars did run as a four year old. What if the same misfortune befell him as it did the mighty Mill Reef all those years ago. Yes, the Ian Balding wonder horse destroyed his Prix Ganay opponents on his comeback run; however, in his next run, the Coronation Cup at Epsom, he only prevailed by a head against Homeric – a horse he had beaten out of sight in the previous year’s Derby.His poor run was put down to illness. Thereafter tragedy struck and the horse never ran again.

    Would anyone like to see a great flat horse’s superb achievements lessened or tarnished, either through bad luck, loss of form or sickness.

    Well, I for one would not. Sea The Stars has left an indelible impression on me and thousand of other racing fans throughout the world and it has been an absolute privilege watching this superb horse repel all the top three year old that Aidan & co put in his way.

    Yes, the financial side of it played a huge part in the retirement decision, but I’m equally convinced that John Oxx looked at the bigger picture.

    I applaud the decision; not only to retire him, but also not running him in the Breeder’s Cup Classic.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #253299
    Avatar photograysonscolumn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6966

    Totally agree with Ugly mare (great post) and TDK

    Its a dreadful decision. Just because its the usual tactic, doesnt make it any more palatable

    As for the money…is Tsui skint or something? Thats garbage

    This is like Peterson immediately retiring after his Oval century in 2005 with I "have nothing more to prove" or Rooney packing it in after a hat trick against brazil

    What is there to prove? Beat another generation thats what. Secure that oh so rare second arc. Ascot? Irish leger perhaps?

    Very much agree. The most really credible determiner of any sportsman having no more to prove is when he or she is able to defeat successive new waves or generations of opponent at will – Michael Schumacher in motor racing, Phil Taylor in darts, Jahangir Khan in squash, and so on.

    For all that Sea The Stars’ achievements shouldn’t be crabbed lightly, I’m still left with the overriding impression of him simply being – to paraphrase the old Underworld album title – first toughest in the infants. And that’s a bit unsatisfactory, ultimately.

    gc

    Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #253300
    jose1993
    Member
    • Total Posts 1228

    For one thing, which horse has pumped up gate takings on each and every appearance from the Eclipse onwards? Was it a 4yo, or an 8yo? No. It was a 3yo – and Zarkava and Rachel Alexander have had / are having the same positive impact in France and America respectively.

    It will be interesting to see what impact Rachel Alexandra has as a 4yo in America then. I don’t think it will be a negative one somehow, much like Curlin never had a negative one. It was quite the opposite I bet with Curlin. Champions in any sport continuing can’t have a negative impact. If Rachel Alexandra is undefeated in 2010 approaching the Breeders Cup at Churchill Downs then I’d love to see the lack of positive impact in the run up to the Classic.

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