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If i was A.P McCoy in this scenario, i would be telling connections to get Sam on Master minded, because A.P knows exactly what Sam is going
through and the only way to beat his "hoodoo" is to carry on regardless,and those closest to him should be supporting him 100% not
offering stable rides to outsiders! My racing dictionary doesn"t have the word Loyalty in it, Scapegoat is in it though!!I agree with you to a certain extent GW but AP is a bsinessman and having been offered the ride he can’t afford not to take it. Sam’s a very good pilot but as I said before he is not the stables 1st jockey and in his position you can expect not to get the chance to ride some of the horses.
If you owned Master Minded and PN came to you and said I have AP available Graham lee or we can let Sam ride him who would you want…..This will be like water of a ducks back to Sam and just another day to him. He is well used to playing second fiddle to Ruby and if he has to play second fiddle to AP then that’s just par for the course………he would like the ride no doubt but he doesn’t automatically expect to get it. Let’s not forget he’s had some great times like ridng Kauto and Denman. Something every jockey in the country would die for……..He’s a lucky guy and he won’t be doing any moaning about MM as he knows where he is well off.
Just watched his two Folkestone rides on the ATR replay section.
Jeeze he really is having a tough time of things and at the moment if we went into a casino with a double headed coin he would probably lose his shirt.
We all go through these types of bad runs such as betting and not being able to back a single winner no matter how easy a race looks on paper and sadly for Sam Thomas it is his turn to suffer this cruel fate.
I first said that he should take a couple of days off but it would look like he is running away if he did so maybe just riding through it and wait for that elusive big winner would help him.
Fair play to Paul Nicholls for giving Fergie a call to ask his advice, lets face it their is nothing he doesnt know about star players going through a bad patch and he may well be able to help.
I really do feel for Sam and i hope he gets that one winner which will send the crowd wild and even if it is a 0-95 i hope he gets a cheer similar to the one he got from Denman back in March.
One thing is certain, there is no way McCoy would turn the ride down nor care too much about Thomas being jocked off.
Fist, you are quite right in what you say, i am just playing the loyalty card from a deck of cards that dont need re-shuffling! Here"s an interesting thought!! What if Sam rides "Twist" again and comes to challenge A.P: at the last on "Master" and wins in a photo finish! Justice is a word in my racing dictionary!
i am all in gfavour of sam i think he is a great jocky havin a **** time, what other jocky has a **** spell?? more than sam… i think everyone should stop bein so spitefull to him, i hear he may ride noland on sataday and if he does i wish him all the best xx
Ian, I have no idea why you quoted my post, when you have ignored everything in it.
If you think Sam Thomas is being made a scape-goat, then good for you.
I have made no comment on Sam Thomas’ riding. My only point was that jockeys – Sam Thomas amongst them – will routinely look to get on the best horses possible. Jocking-off goes on all the time, it is considered an occupational hazard, and therefore why would there be a furore if ST was jocked-off Master Minded, in favour of a better (and more confident) pilot?
As for your comments about McCoy, if you think you can find any quotes from me suggesting he was not a "big race jockey", and only able to "ride certain types of horse", then be my guest. I should warn you, however, it will be somewhat of a fruitless search.
Grasshopper I was speaking generally I wasn’t personally accusing you of anything. I replied to your post mainly because you brought up McCoy in a somewhat positive light I was just refering to the fickleness of people in general.
Of course you are right in saying that jockeys will get on what horses they can but at the end of the day it isn’t up to them its the owner at the end of the day that will choose who will ride his horses, he pays the bills.
In this particular case if I were Clive Smith I’d have come out and publically backed Sam Thomas and insisted that he and no one else would ride Master Minded on Saturday.
Sam Thomas needs support through this difficult time he doesn’t need people turning their backs on him (IMO).
This whole controversy reflects very badly on Paul Nicholls, whatever the merits or otherwise of Mr Thomas. If Alex Ferguson came out after the Manchester Derby and was less than 100% supportive of Christiano Ronaldo despite the plonker handling the ball to get sent off, everyone would be shocked. Whatever you say about the man, he backs his players to the hilt and they play for him as a result. PN’s less than enthusiastic support for his acting stable jockey is hardly likely to help the lad’s confidence- if he had a problem with his riding it should have been addressed in private. If he jocks him off MM this week he may as well sack him.
Carvills.Sacked, for what amounts to an "Occupational Hazard," that would have Unfair dismissal written all over it! I could see the judge saying " I put it to you Mr Thomas that you have been dismissed for failing to maintain a seated position aboard your mounts during the course of a horse race and actually parting company with the afore mentioned! How do you defend yourself young man"? Well m"lord i was trying to get my mounts to jump over 5ft high obstacles, called fences and unfortunately i have had a series of falls due to the beasts failing to clear these obstacles that are there to make the race as difficult as possible to win! Adjourn!
I agree with all that has been said in support of Sam Thomas and will be at Sandown looking forward to seeing him ride on Saturday. I do rate him as a horseman who is just having the kind of bad run that all jockeys have
Fair play to Alex Stewart for his sportsmanship and loyalty in supporting Sam after the Hennessey. Big Buck’s was a fall waiting to happen. He was lugging righthanded and AP the great would have fallen off him as he would have done with Kauto Star.
Paul Nichols has the right to employ whomsoever he likes to ride whatever he likes of course he does but he must show more loyalty to those who ride for him. I didn’t like the way he has come out in the press and said the things he did, he has undermined Sam and perhaps fuelled speculation in the media that need not have happened.
give the man a break, it is thirty five years since I last rode a horse (Langholm Common Riding Day 1973) and it was not easy then and much fine gold would get me back on one so what it must be like riding a clumsy chaser into a big open ditch in a big field in one of the most competitive races of the season is quite beyond my imagination (and most of us on this forum, I venture to suggest). Sam is a good rider and will continue to be so I hope for a long time to come.
It’s not as though he falls as often as Rooney is it? I dare any non-rider to sit on a horse approaching a fence at thirty miles an hour and come through unscathed, and still prepared to knock Sam at a time when he’s on the deck. We should just be pleased that despite his falls both he and his mounts are suffering no worse injuries than bruised pride.I appreciate it was classed as a fall this afternoon but from what I saw he had jumped the fence well but the horse’s rear end started to slide and the momentum of trying to right himself and forward propulsion resulted in two opposite forces leaving his whole chassis out of keel.
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Paul Nicholls is simply beginning to buy into his own hype and unforuntately it will be those around him that suffer. Sam has hit an untimely dip in form and he can be made as big a scapegoat as people want him to be. It isn’t unreasonable to think that two big-race fallers aren’t merely a coincidence, but perhaps the finger should be pointed elsewhere – how many Ditcheat horses have failed to see out their races in the last fortnight?
I have to commend Harry Findlay and Andy Stewart for doing what they obviously knew Paul Nicholls wouldn’t. Support is all that Sam can hope for at times like these, support which can only aid his ‘recovery’ and future development. He may not be one of the best jockeys around, but few are seldom categorised in such a way and he’s certainly as good as (if not better than) the majority.
Given the level of almost subliminal criticism Nicholls has levelled at Thomas, I honestly wouldn’t blame him for deciding to take a few days off. I don’t, personally, think he’s that sort of person and remain fairly sure that he’ll just battle through his closing fence demons, but nobody ever rid themselves of ‘the shanks’ by spending ten hours a day on the golf course.
I went off PN some time ago now.
He would obviously rather make a jockey look inadequate than recognise fault in one of his charges and his lame excuses in defeat are tiresome and really needless for someone so successful in the game imo.
I couldn’t help but see him and Ruby as some kind of Laural and Hardy act during the last Chelt and Aintree meeting back in March.
I recall last month Jimmy fortune ‘giving up’ his ride on Ravens in the BCC because according to himself, he might not have been at his best after a spell on the sidelines and the rest is history. The point i’m making is if we are to believe what fortune said, then at least he was given a choice.
I really feel that as stable jockey, low on confidence or not, he should be trusted and given the option of turning down the MM ride for what ever reason he gives.
The subbing of a sub is the ultimate humiliation.
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I understand what you’re saying, OTS, but I don’t think for one second that Jimmy Fortune had a choice in that particular matter.
As I said before, I wouldn’t blame Sam Thomas in the slightest for deciding to give race-riding a rest for a few days, but how many people would be prepared to keep doing Paul Nicholls a favour in light of this public humiliation?
There would surely be no shortage of requests for Thomas’s services, so let Nicholls rely on Christian Williams and Nick Scholfield. Obviously a position with the champion trainer is the dream of any jockey, but he’s shot himself in the foot more than once in the last few years (Azertyuiop’s Sandown run being the pinnacle of his insanity) and there’s only so much somebody should take.
Odd though that when Sam pulled Oumeyade up a circuit too soon at Fakenham, Nicholls was seemingly right behind him. Then again we’re not taking about inconsequential ‘nothing’ races now, are we Paul?
Hello,
I am just making an enquiry here, would McCoy approach Owner/Trainer and ask to ride MM??
Basically would he do a "Lester", i.e. go above the trainer’s head to the owner and effectively get Sam "jocked off"??
I am not condoning this practice, but it was a practice on the flat in Lester’s day.
Or would the owner step in and request from PN a change of jockey?
Wouldn’t it make the whole episode of stepping down Sam a lot easier for PN, if he was to say the owner has requested McCoy ride MM on Saturday??
Or is it the habit of jocking off riders, carried out so ruthlessly by Lester, a thing of the past or confined to the flat code only?
regards,
doyley
lets face it sam thomas is a most competent jockey who is going through a period where things are simply not going well,and despite the way PN talks his horses up stable confidence cannot be high and that reflects right down to the jockey,it would be good if ST could get a couple of winners from an outside stable to get him back on a high,and i dont think it would do any harm to get AP to ride for the stable to get the confidence going again,one thing is for certain ST should not get the blame.
Nichols was wrong to do what he did and should have said nothing. However belicose defence (ala Fergie…whos laughable at times) would not come naturally to someone who is far more inclined to say it how it is. I prefer him that way…
From some of the posts above it would appear that the prime consideration here should be the jockeys career. I would put that way down the list of priorities
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