- This topic has 56 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
It seems as if we are not allowed to comment on how poor we feel jockeys are, why not? In football they are slated all the time and rightfully so, if you play bad on a regular basis you are dropped and slated. I just wish Moore was dropped..
I think you are allowed to comment but always be prepared for the backlash from those on here who believe it is something of a sin ‘to be talking through your pocket’.
Stilvi,
I don’t mind anyone having an opinion about anything. As long as they back up their oppinion with evidence. What should Moore have done with Leocorno? Give examples of Moore’s stupidity.
To start a thread calling a top jockey useless with nothing to say why, seems rediculous. I sometimes critisise jockeys myself. Just because someone has backed the horse does not mean they are wrong with their critisism, but this so far is just name calling.
So please, explain yourselves.
Value Is EverythingI have to challenge the "Ryan Moore Top Jockey"….i yet to seen a records other than his championships. Surely he should be judged on his race record.
He has no competition so in the Jockey Championship…..he has great talent but Top Jockey is going very far indeed
- Total Posts 17716
Plenty of bad jockeys yes. But Moore is pathetic. … [snip] I fear he has a very low level of intelligense
Low or not, I’d bet that (unlike you) he can spell "intelligence".
Avoiding the usual "could you ride any better?" taunt, I’d also be willing to bet that one posting from him on this forum would be worth about 1000 of yours, if you continue to bray at this level of quantum ignorance.
These professionals do their job to the best of their considerable ability. Don’t we get enough of these jockey flame posts? They are beyond tedium.
I cannot believe that you backed a horse ridden by someone that you thought was very poor.
Silly thread. The worst time to makes these threads are when you lose. It’s just so obvious your gamble didn’t pay off.
Im gonna talk outta my pocket as well here
Was skint one sat afternoon (tenner in my pocket) and pretty pissed i couldnt go out that nite so nipped into the local money grabber and placed it on sugar ray
What i seen was a perfect example of a ride from the front, kicking and stealing a lead into the straight and great power in the saddle to see off the pretty useful mad rush
Beer tokens in the pocket and a feeling that i had just seen an intelligent, powerful performance from a great jockey
Just checked its record since and sanders, dettori (3 times), fortune, o’neill, dwyer have all tried and failed to win on the horse
Useless do me a favourIt seems as if we are not allowed to comment on how poor we feel jockeys are, why not? In football they are slated all the time and rightfully so, if you play bad on a regular basis you are dropped and slated. I just wish Moore was dropped..
I think you are allowed to comment but always be prepared for the backlash from those on here who believe it is something of a sin ‘to be talking through your pocket’.
Stilvi,
I don’t mind anyone having an opinion about anything. As long as they back up their oppinion with evidence. What should Moore have done with Leocorno? Give examples of Moore’s stupidity.
To start a thread calling a top jockey useless with nothing to say why, seems rediculous. I sometimes critisise jockeys myself. Just because someone has backed the horse does not mean they are wrong with their critisism, but this so far is just name calling.
So please, explain yourselves.
If you notice I passed no comment on Moore’s ride, I was merely advising the original poster of what reaction to expect.
As regards Kirby today – Stotsfold dropped in trip and ridden from too far back. Third favourite but effectively never at the races. He then finished last on Flora Trevalyan who I seriously believe would have finished close to the places under a decent ride. He got boxed in, failed to get her balanced and in the end made her look unrideable. Far too often he looks as if he is waiting on what other jockeys do rather than doing anything proactive himself. Gaps disappear and races pass him by because he appears too slow to react.
I’ll advise what he should have done on Leocorno. Quite simply, I take it the horse needs cover, and, by all accounts, Newmarket had a tailwind today so front runners were being assisted. He got a decent position coming out of the stalls but he sacrificed it by being too concerned with holding the horse up and getting cover. He was on a proven stayer so he could have tried to sit 1-2 lengths off the lead at the most (considering the tailwind). If the horse couldn’t have gone the pace show some more effort on the thing. As for the golden rail idea – it is fine in principal that Moore tried to get the run up the rail – in such a big field was it worth gambling on? It’s a straight course, so you would have to think it’s going to be harder to get.
I’ll advise what he should have done on Leocorno. Quite simply, I take it the horse needs cover, but, by all accounts, Newmarket had a tailwind today so front runners were being assisted. He got a decent position coming out of the stalls but he sacrificed it by being too concerned of holding the horse up and getting cover. He was on a proven stayer so he should have tried to sit 1-2 lengths off the lead at the most considering the tailwind. If the horse couldn’t have gone the pace show some more effort on the thing. As for the golden rail idea, that is fine in principal that Moore tried to get the run up the rail, but in such a big field was it worth gambling on? It’s a straight course so you would have to think it’s going to be harder to get.
I’ve slagged him off, and I’ve tried answered the point about Leocorno. I don’t like him as a rider. I don’t see one good thing in his riding style that he brings.
Thanks Stilvi and Jose for answering.
Had Moore done what you say Jose, Leocorno would in all probability pulled too hard and been beaten. Agree pace was favoured, in a perfect world a prominent position would be ideal. However, when a horse takes a hold (like Sea The Stars in the Arc) the percentage call is to settle it. Get behind horses, without cover it has little chance of winning. Had there been a good pace and the gaps came for Leocorno; no problem.
It’s just the chance you take by backing one that takes a hold.
There is a fine line between a "good" and "bad ride". Had Vision d’Etat stayed on better, Mick Kinane may not have found the gaps in the Arc. Just imagine what some might have said. But if that were the case, it would still be a good ride, just not getting the breaks.
Value Is EverythingAll I’m thinking with Leocorno was that she would have been beaten by riding her for luck 999 times out of 1000 with the tailwind, so you might as well put yourself in with some chance of winning. The ideal situation was to find cover and be less than 3 lengths off the lead.
I’ll accept that on reflection, Moore didn’t do as much wrong as I felt at the time.
But there are small things which make the best jockeys what they are. With Moore I’ll take an example of a horse he rode successfully in some ways this season, but one where another jockey I feel showed what could be done. That horse is Confront. After his seasonal debut win at Newmarket off an extremely well handicapped mark, Confront appeared to be sort of quirky and frustrating. He went onto lose 4 in a row thereafter before dead-heating at York. Some questioned the horses quirks, of which he does seem to have a few. Moore only rode him twice out of the four occasions when he lost, but it was Pasquier at Haydock that showed the horses’ full potential. He took the initiative off a slow pace on soft ground and made all the running. Before Confront was sitting off the pace too far back in my opinion, and appearing one paced and almost awkward. I understand what a trainer tells a jockey is important, but I don’t feel Moore adapts well enough to different race situations at times. Look at his Newmarket Group 3 win last time out – Moore put him in a much better position. I can only feel this happened because of what was shown at Haydock.
Think Jose, you may have a point with Confront. At Epsom he was outsprinted by the inferior Mac Love. And then enabled the same horse to do the same at Salisbury. Think after those two defeats, connections were very likely to change tactics. Especially coming down in trip.
Value Is EverythingA pointless debate, we all have our favourites and preferences and that is unlikely to be altered by anything written here.
For what it’s worth I’ve had him in the top 3 jockeys for some years and have seen nothing recently to alter that view.
Like any profession, the quality of jockeys can vary but even if some posters are correct and Moore is no good, so what? what can he do about it and it’s not a criminal offence to be useless.Moore does put in some poor rides – there was one day at Newbury last month when I counted three in the afternoon but he’s decent, honest and straight which is more than can be said for Mr Fallon.
Give me Ryan Moore anyday – there might be the odd error of judgement but he’ll always ride the horse to do it’s best and won’t actively seek to get blocked for a run at important stages or just sit out the back and do nothing.
Strike rate of the top ten flat jockeys in 2009
Ryan Moore 21%
Richard Hughes 19%
Jamie Spencer 18%
Paul Hanagan 13%
Chris Catlin 10%
N Callan 14%
Robert Winston 13%
Seb Sanders 14%
Jim Crowley 11%
Tom Queally 13%The only two jockeys outside the top ten with a better strike rate than Moore are Dettori and Richard Hills who have a 24% strike rate, but are more selective about their mounts. (Fallon has a 17% strike rate this season)
21% does not sound like a bad strike rate to me and I would rather trust the figures than a subjective view influnced by losing bets.
Whenever humans and / or animals are involved there are going to be mistakes and errors of judgement – annoying but a fact of life.
A strike rate clearly depends a great deal on the quality of horses a jockey is able to ride and in itself does not make a jockey immune from riding a poor race now and again.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.