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Hello…was wondering if any views on the running of Romsdal in G Greer yesterday. Stewards held enquiry :-
The Stewards considered the running of ROMSDAL, ridden by James Doyle, and trained by John Gosden, which finished sixth of the six runners, beaten 62 ¾ lengths. The Stewards noted that the jockey reported that the colt ran flat but the trainer’s representative could offer no explanation for the colt’s performance. The Veterinary Officer reported that a post-race examination of ROMSDAL, during routine testing, failed to reveal any abnormalities.
Didn’t really have a bet ….just watched as had backed it in April and was amazed at how tamely it folded…..it looked punch drunk and empty…..couldn’t be ground as handles soft….reminded me of Gorytus flop in 1982… winner Agent Murphy backed heavily before off. What really puzzled me was the lack of post race analysis after or did I miss something or am I looking for something not there. This was one of the strangest performances I have seen in years?
Bula11
He cost me a few bob yesterday, so I too would be interested in why this happened especially after the effort shown at Ascot last time out.
Too soon after the King George. Even if a horse handles softer going it still takes a lot out of them. I have seen this happen many times and I was a bit dubious about his chances after a 3 week break, especially after such a taxing race.
Too soon after the King George. Even if a horse handles softer going it still takes a lot out of them. I have seen this happen many times and I was a bit dubious about his chances after a 3 week break, especially after such a taxing race.
Esoterique ran last week and was a close third in the Van Gheest, she came out this week and hosed up in the Prix Jaques Le Marajuana
I’m having trouble believing that three weeks isn’t long enough to get a horse at least 90% over any fatigue accrued in a big race. He was dropping two grades in class here and even at 80% of his best he shouldn’t be beaten by a Grand National also ran type of margin.
Yesterday Richard Hannon’s Dheban was favourite but stone last in the maiden 2yo race. The representative gave exactly the same “Ran flat” excuse and, like Romsdal the Vet found no abnormality afterwards.
This whole asking for an explanation of a poor run is a pointless farce.
Steward:- “Why was your horse beaten by half a furlong?”
Trainer:- “Because he ran like a sack of S**t Sir”
Steward:- “Thanks, that explains everything, you can go now”
Utter, pointless tosh in the name of appearing to care one jot.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
It’s the difference in distance as well, 12f on soft to heavy and then 13f on soft. I don’t think he would have been beaten as far as he did if James Doyle didn’t completely ease up on him. All that being said though, you would think a proper explanation would have been given.
It’s the difference in distance as well, 12f on soft to heavy and then 13f on soft. I don’t think he would have been beaten as far as he did if James Doyle didn’t completely ease up on him. All that being said though, you would think a proper explanation would have been given.
Spot on Chivers.
Not only the hard race on soft surface coming only 3 weeks ago. Romsdal’s best performances this year have come after a break.Horses vary in the amount of time they need to recuperate.
Horses temperament can also change from season to season. Romsdal seemed genuine as a 3 year old when tactically fairly versatile. Bit edgy in the paddock at Newbury and didn’t seem happy from an early stage after slowly away and pushed along to take a prominent posi’. It’s possible likes an early lead nowadays and Palisator had already got to the front. Never travelling as he does when at best.
Value Is EverythingThanks for views…maybe horse is suffering from the Denman/Sprinter syndrome….like I said this was a a strange performance esp from a Derby 3rd and Leger 2nd and like stevecaution says dropped 2 grades. I am a bit of a purist with the horses and can say …this was odd …..poor explanations from authorities all round. If things come to light ..fair enough. ps hope the horse is ok
Bula11
Gingertipster
the horse was absolutely dead….so are you saying John Gosden doesn’t know his horses’s fitness? You are missing my point (again)
Bula11
was a strange performance,but the one thing i would like to point out,even with all his very good runs in defeat,he is still yet to win on turf.That being said that was to bad to be true.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Chivers1987 wrote:</div>
It’s the difference in distance as well, 12f on soft to heavy and then 13f on soft. I don’t think he would have been beaten as far as he did if James Doyle didn’t completely ease up on him. All that being said though, you would think a proper explanation would have been given.Spot on Chivers.
Not only the hard race on soft surface coming only 3 weeks ago. Romsdal’s best performances this year have come after a break.Horses vary in the amount of time they need to recuperate.
Horses temperament can also change from season to season. Romsdal seemed genuine as a 3 year old when tactically fairly versatile. Bit edgy in the paddock at Newbury and didn’t seem happy from an early stage after slowly away and pushed along to take a prominent posi’. It’s possible likes an early lead nowadays and Palisator had already got to the front. Never travelling as he does when at best.
I don’t accept that at all as an excuse and I strongly suspect the Stewards would tell you to “GTF out of here” if you tried to pan them off with that.
It just doesn’t stack up at all as a theory of you examine Romsdal’s career.
Romsdal won his maiden after an 11 day gap from his first run. It was a lower level than we are talking about now but the first race he ran in was a 3 grand Doncaster maiden so he was capable of dealing with an 11 day gap between contests.
Earlier this year Romsdal had 21 days between his listed seasonal debut and went up to group 3 next time, finishing third to Arab Spring, only beaten a length and a half. How come 21 days off didn’t see him run badly that day?
Last year he went from a nose defeat to running 3rd in the Derby, the gap then was 30 days. Are we to believe that 9 days extra made the difference? That might have some slight traction as a theory but the trouble is that Romsdal then had 49 days between races and ran a total stinker in the King George behind Taghrooda. Prior to Saturday’s debacle, that was his worst ever run, beaten 23 lengths. How could he run that badly after a seven week break if he’s best fresh?
For sure, the 196 days between the St Leger and his next start allowed him to win that race but it may also have helped that he was dropping from Group 1, down to Listed company.
Part of the problem is that the horse just isn’t that great in my opinion. He’s never won on turf and his actual win prize money is a modest £22,000, always an alarm bell for me when horses are quite short odds.
I think punters need a better explanation for a horse being as lifeless as this example and I believe we need more than theories and logic that doesn’t stack up on examination.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gingertipster wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Chivers1987 wrote:</div>
It’s the difference in distance as well, 12f on soft to heavy and then 13f on soft. I don’t think he would have been beaten as far as he did if James Doyle didn’t completely ease up on him. All that being said though, you would think a proper explanation would have been given.Spot on Chivers.
Not only the hard race on soft surface coming only 3 weeks ago. Romsdal’s best performances this year have come after a break.Horses vary in the amount of time they need to recuperate.
Horses temperament can also change from season to season. Romsdal seemed genuine as a 3 year old when tactically fairly versatile. Bit edgy in the paddock at Newbury and didn’t seem happy from an early stage after slowly away and pushed along to take a prominent posi’. It’s possible likes an early lead nowadays and Palisator had already got to the front. Never travelling as he does when at best.
I don’t accept that at all as an excuse and I strongly suspect the Stewards would tell you to “GTF out of here” if you tried to pan them off with that.
It just doesn’t stack up at all as a theory of you examine Romsdal’s career.
Romsdal won his maiden after an 11 day gap from his first run. It was a lower level than we are talking about now but the first race he ran in was a 3 grand Doncaster maiden so he was capable of dealing with an 11 day gap between contests.
1) I said “Horses temperament can also change from season to season” Steve? imo Has not looked as genuine this term. As you yourself infer, Romsdal has not won the number of races or win prize money you’d expect from a horse of his ability. As I said, may be Romsdal’s temperament is not 100%. But if you want to take last year in to account…
2) Even if taking last season in to consideration, do you really believe Romsdal would’ve been given a hard race on debut? Fact Romsdal had a “HARD RACE on soft surface” when 3rd in the King George is MASSIVELY important to the “theory”….
Earlier this year Romsdal had 21 days between his listed seasonal debut and went up to group 3 next time, finishing third to Arab Spring, only beaten a length and a half. How come 21 days off didn’t see him run badly that day?
3) Did Romsdal have a “hard race” at Kempton?
No! Therefore recovering quicker. Although even so – according to Timeform still nowhere near his best in third despite able to lead.Last year he went from a nose defeat to running 3rd in the Derby, the gap then was 30 days. Are we to believe that 9 days extra made the difference? That might have some slight traction as a theory but the trouble is that Romsdal then had 49 days between races and ran a total stinker in the King George behind Taghrooda. Prior to Saturday’s debacle, that was his worst ever run, beaten 23 lengths. How could he run that badly after a seven week break if he’s best fresh?
4) Did Romsdal have a hard race at Chester?
imo It wasn’t an easy or hard race; certainly not as hard a race as he got in the King George or the Derby…5) Good point Steve. Yes, Romsdal “ran a total stinker in the King George behind Taghrooda” after the Derby. But it was again a stinker after a hard race. May be a hard race affects the horse temperamentally as well as physically and needs an even longer time to recover under such conditions.
For sure, the 196 days between the St Leger and his next start allowed him to win that race but it may also have helped that he was dropping from Group 1, down to Listed company.
Part of the problem is that the horse just isn’t that great in my opinion. He’s never won on turf and his actual win prize money is a modest £22,000, always an alarm bell for me when horses are quite short odds.
I think punters need a better explanation for a horse being as lifeless as this example and I believe we need more than theories and logic that doesn’t stack up on examination.
What you yourself point out Steve is that Romsdal’s TWO STINKERS have come AFTER TWO OF HIS THREE hardest races (Derby and King George). The other hard race being the St Leger, when having much longer (196 days) to recover. Therefore, far from “failing to stack up”… Me thinks – it goes some way to prove Chivers and I right.
(see writing in bold above for answers to your individual points Steve).
Value Is EverythingGinger.
The simple facts are that your theory can not stack up as a valid and acceptable excuse.
Despite the hard race last time, you backed Romsdal this time, probably because he was dropping two grades, surely you were not that concerned that he had only had three weeks between races.
Romsdal ran a bad race after a seven week break, how bloody long does a horse need to get tiredness out of his legs? There is not one shred of forensic evidence to prove that Romsdal would have run better on Saturday had he had six months to get over his last run, instead of the three weeks.
Your opinion and that of Chivers has been respected, considered and, based on the logical process I follow as a former analytical Chemist, has been rejected.
The consensus seems to be that you two gentlemen are in the minority in accepting that the three week gap allowed Rosmdal to run like Crisp in the closing stages of the 1973 National.
The Stewards would laugh and throw you out, again! LOL
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Gingertipster
the horse was absolutely dead….so are you saying John Gosden doesn’t know his horses’s fitness? You are missing my point (again)
It is you who is “missing the point (again)” Bula. :lol:
No, Romsdal was not “absolutely dead”. Allowed to come home in his own time after clearly not right. Something might come to light, but have given a couple of possible reasons for this poor effort.
As said, was edgy in paddock. Not in the right frame of mind and/or physical shape to produce his best.
Once passed by a few rivals Romsdal (being one that does not like being surrounded) downed tools. Doyle rightly soon accepted the situation, letting the horse come home in its own time.imo John Gosden is the best trainer in Europe; but with some horses their home work (which is not done at full speed and/or over the same distance as a race) look the same as ever. ie Trainers may well be able to identify most horses from home work who are not at their best; but can not do so for all horses.
Value Is EverythingAll opinions fair enough here. I also think Doyle was expecting Romsdal to lead and set the pace (something he never did as a 3yo but has in almost every race this year) but Pallasator took over those duties and left Doyle with a decision to make, so he tracked him as close as he could.
Why did Telescope run so poorly at Royal Ascot?
Are we to believe the reason given was that he needed a faster pace to aim at?Maybe John Gosden doesn’t know Romsdal completely inside out and is still learning his idiosyncrasies and what not.
Ginger.
The simple facts are that your theory can not stack up as a valid and acceptable excuse.
Despite the hard race last time, you backed Romsdal this time, probably because he was dropping two grades, surely you were not that concerned that he had only had three weeks between races.
Romsdal ran a bad race after a seven week break, how bloody long does a horse need to get tiredness out of his legs?
I say again Steve, time between races is not the major factor. The major factor in all this is “hard races”; with “tiredness” in mind at least as important (if not more) than body. ie 49 days means less when it comes to the mind; often (possibly like Romsdal) only after a considerable length of time (eg 196 days) does the horse’s mind get over a hard race.
I had only a saver bet on Romsdal. Why not a main bet? Because does not win often enough, had two below par performances so far this seaon, wasn’t that far in front on Timeform ratings and yes; had a hard race at Ascot. Not that I expected a poor run, just a possibility.
My main bet was Agent Murphy.
However…
Compared with everything we knew about the horse before Saturday’s race – in future – if Romsdal has another “hard race” there’ll be a greater possibility he’ll run poorly in his next race. ie My opinion expressed on this thread has changed since Saturday morning. In future, after a hard race doubt I’ll be backing Romsdal even as a saver, but that (as always) also depands on price.
Value Is EverythingSome horses are very good yet just don’t like winning whatever level.
Shirroco Star being a good example, no matter what class of race she would finish 2nd. 2nd in the Oaks and 2nd in the donkey derby.
I backed a horse Saturday and it looked the winner enter the final furlong as he had been swinging alone whilst the leader looked to be becoming to the end of his run and tiring yet the horse I backed wouldn’t go threw with his challenge and it was almost as if he was pulling himself up. I think the jockey knew this and pulled the horse wide when challenging but he didn’t want to know.Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
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