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How do people feel about Ripon joining Chester and Bangor? i see this as removing choice from the punter, and worse than that apparently at Chester and Bangor they gave shorter prices than SP, how insulting. This cant be good for racing overall.
Certainly in the case of Chester most punters would not give a monkey’s as they are simply there to pour as much alcohol down their necks as possible.
It is not good value but then again most serious on course punters wouldn’t use the Tote anyway and would use the bookmakers.
In terms of is it good for racing that depends. The profits go back to the individual race courses and if they put that towards prize money then it may be good for the sport.
I know a large number of courses were watching the Chester / Bangor experiment very closely and I would not be surprised if Ripon was the first of many to follow suit.
Once the FredTote’s protection period ends after seven years I can see the racecourses moving towards running a proper Tote operation, therefore I see this current system as a stop gap measure.
How do people feel about Ripon joining Chester and Bangor? i see this as removing choice from the punter, and worse than that apparently at Chester and Bangor they gave shorter prices than SP, how insulting. This cant be good for racing overall.
I think that anything that encourages people to bet a tote run by the individual course can only be a good thing and people can still bet with bookies if they wish.
It is not good value but then again most serious on course punters wouldn’t use the Tote anyway and would use the bookmakers.
Fair enough in terms of single bets etc., but as a modest punter I find combination exactas a bet that suits my style of betting and one that can be quite lucrative.
I now find it’s not worth doing these bets at Bangor. The Bangor/Chester enterprise does not operate as a bona fide pool as I understand it.
It is not good value but then again most serious on course punters wouldn’t use the Tote anyway and would use the bookmakers.
Fair enough in terms of single bets etc., but as a modest punter I find combination exactas a bet that suits my style of betting and one that can be quite lucrative.
I now find it’s not worth doing these bets at Bangor. The Bangor/Chester enterprise does not operate as a bona fide pool as I understand it.
Correct it isn’t pool betting as such as the Tote has a guaranteed protection for seven years from the date of the sale to Betfred.
Certainly in terms of the exotic bets then yes punters will be worse off.
Licensed thievery, SP minus 10%.
Disgracefully ATR stated punters were happy with the returns at Ripon yesterday and David Hood who helped set up the system said the same, what a ****.
Come racing get the value.
Bottom line is that those who wish to get the best terms will seek them out. Those who don’t care what terms they are getting will be taken to the cleaners. ‘Twas ever thus, and not only in the betting market.
Rob
Bottom line is that those who wish to get the best terms will seek them out. Those who don’t care what terms they are getting will be taken to the cleaners. ‘Twas ever thus, and not only in the betting market.
Rob
Interesting attitude but not exactly designed to attract people to the game is it? I know I wouldn’t be going to any track to have a bet that only offered on course bookmakers and sp minus 10%.
Note how much better the Tote dividends were compared to the in house rip off at Ripon.
As Alastair Down headlines in todays Post "Punters pockets picked by go-it-alone courses".
Caveat Emptor
Sure, "punter’s pockets picked…" was it not ever thus?
No one forces an on-course punter to place a bet with the tote, an exchange, an on-course bookie, a racecourse-run tote, or any of the numerous bookmakers taking bets via mobile-phones etc. It’s not theft, it’s not a crime and shouldn’t cause racing pundits a moments unease. The choice of who to bet with has never been greater for anyone half – interested in value than today. If someone is too lazy to seek out the best price for their bet then that’s their problem. There is absolutely no need for criticism of racetrack tote dividends, no matter how poor value they are. Why, some people even do the lottery!!
Perhaps one of the positives of racecourses running their own "tote" is that the money may be ploughed back into better facilities (and has someone has already mentioned) prize money at that course. let’s hope so.It’s a bit like when you go to the cinema and buy their popcorn when you can get a better product round the corner at Tesco for one third of the price. Or when you buy beer at event for £6 a pint.
You have a choice – you either buy it or not.
BUT the question of whether it helps racing sell itself is a different issue. If people think they are going to be ripped off when they go racing then it’ll obviously put them off. But I think most people go racing for fun and aren’t too interested in whether they are betting in a race with a 120% or 140% over-round.
Sean Boyce made a similar point recently re- the Grand National. The shortening of prices in the last few minutes has long been a bugbear of mine but Boyce put some perspective on it by pointing out that the once-a-year punters don’t really care.
It doesn’t mean, however, we should let THEM get away with it…!
True, punters betting on these in house betting systems don’t particularly care about what price they are taking. But is it because they do not understand they are being short-changed? If understanding – then may be they would "care". If I filled up my car at the same garage for a year without looking at their prices and paid 10% more than the going rate… You might say it is my fault. But is it fair for the garage owner to try and fleece the customer? How would you feel if I had charged your grandmother 10% over the going rate for fitting carpets throughout her house? She would not know any different yet could be hundreds of pounds out of pocket. It’s alright though, because all proceeds went to the Carpet Fitters Fund which helped pay for a new van and tools.
Value Is EverythingSorry Ginge, but it’s not anything like ripping off your granny for fitting her carpets. No one is forced to use the in-house racecourse tote; there are plenty of alternatives available. Imagine if your granny had 7 different carpet fitters around to quote her a price, then there might be a similarity. People at the racetrack HAVE ALTERNATIVES TO THE IN-HOUSE TOTE. Let them be lazy and take a less "generous" option if they want; why should anyone else care?
Let’s put it another way. Have you ever been in the betting ring and noticed someone taking a rubbish price about a horse(think Gus Oppenheim!!) when a bookie 2 or 3 places away is offering a better price about that horse? If so, did you approach the punter and tell him what a dick he was because a larger price was available a few yards away? Probably not. The same applies to people who can’t be mithered to look for alternatives to the in-course tote from the many other options available to them.Caveat Emptor
Sorry Ginge, but it’s not anything like ripping off your granny for fitting her carpets. No one is forced to use the in-house racecourse tote; there are plenty of alternatives available. Imagine if your granny had 7 different carpet fitters around to quote her a price, then there might be a similarity. People at the racetrack HAVE ALTERNATIVES TO THE IN-HOUSE TOTE. Let them be lazy and take a less "generous" option if they want; why should anyone else care?
So in other words Insomniac,
If there are 7 carpet shops on the high street and your grandmother only walked in to mine – then she’s asking to be conned?
Value Is EverythingWell Ginge, she MIGHT be being conned, however, the cheapest quote isn’t necessarily the best option (at least where carpet/carpet-fitting is concerned).
If your granny knows there are 7 carpet shops in the high street but chooses only to go into one, then how can you put any blame on that one carpet shop for their bill being higher than what some of the others might have been?
As far as betting on the racecourse is concerned, most punters I’d suggest know full well that there are alternatives to the in-track "tote" and also that this outlet will pay shorter odds, so why should we be in the least bit concerned if they still choose to stick with the poor value tote?
(BTW – have you had a nasty experience with carpet retailers/fitters?)Carpet fitting has nothing to do with profitable betting on The Tote.
That’s all down to avoiding the underlay…
Mike
Well Ginge, she MIGHT be being conned, however, the cheapest quote isn’t necessarily the best option (at least where carpet/carpet-fitting is concerned).
If your granny knows there are 7 carpet shops in the high street but chooses only to go into one, then how can you put any blame on that one carpet shop for their bill being higher than what some of the others might have been?
As far as betting on the racecourse is concerned, most punters I’d suggest know full well that there are alternatives to the in-track "tote" and also that this outlet will pay shorter odds, so why should we be in the least bit concerned if they still choose to stick with the poor value tote?
(BTW – have you had a nasty experience with carpet retailers/fitters?)It is true that people should not go for the cheapest quote as far as carpet fitting Insomniac. Should really have given an example of just selling the carpet, but I was a carpet-fitter for over 30 years so putting it in to my field.
I know about all sorts of "underlays" Mike.
Most of our work was done by reccomendation with customers coming back to us time after time, decade after decade. But just because customers came to us without looking for a quote – does not mean we’d fleece them. Far from it, they deserved a good value price. Some did not realise how much a job was worth. But just because customers are ignorant of prices does not mean they should be taken advantage of.
Value Is Everything
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