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Full story here:
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/a-p-obrien-ballydoyle-star-rip-van-winkle-retired-to-stud-after-setback/779386/top/A crying shame; his last chance to confirm himself as the best miler of his era, and Aidan must be gutted.
My abiding memory will always be the way he travelled all over Sea The Stars in the Eclipse, and I’ve little doubt – had the race been a furlong shorter – he would have lowered that great horse’s colours.
May he have many fine children.- Total Posts 17716
I would rather he’d been put out to pasture last season to be honest. We were always in agreement about his trip Reet something Johnny Murtagh said along time ago and AOB has at long last come out and confirmed.
AOB did well with the horse but I can’t help but wonder what might have been had he been trained elsewhere and been kept to a mile.
Amazingly AOB still managed to get him back in good enough condition scrape home in the Juddmonte. That performance over that trip just proves how much class he had but it has to be said he’s never looked anything like his old self all season.
We may be sad to see him go but I’d say it’s for the best and I doubt if Rip will be too worried.
Happy Holidays
RIP VAN WINKLE – 2009 Breeders’ Cup @ Santa Anita
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n291/UpInClass/Breeders%20Cup/RIP_VAN_WINKLE.jpg
Enjoy your retirement Big Guy!Ive created a horse page for Rip Van Winkle. I’ve added his pedigree and some other details along with your picture Badactor
Could anyone provide a short introduction to him?
Here’s the link:
Very likeable horse. Aidan probably has him as the one that got away as all the vibes were that they really thought an awful lot of him (I know they say that all the time but there was something a little different about the way he and J. Murtagh spoke about this fellow).
You’d think he has all the characteristics necessary to do well at stud wouldn’t you?
You’d think he has all the characteristics necessary to do well at stud wouldn’t you?
Strictly speaking, Corm, I suppose he only needs one characteristic to do well at stud. The clue’s in his name.
Facetiousness aside, I wish him well, and look forward to seeing what his progeny can achieve in middle distances, what, three or four years hence?
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Strictly speaking, Corm, I suppose he only needs one characteristic to do well at stud. The clue’s in his name.
Well GC call me dim but I fail to understand how falling asleep for twenty years will result in the patter of thousands of tiny hoofprints
Thought thoroughbred winkles weren’t allowed to be ripped for AI
Nice horse, just a shame he won’t be joining Fame and Glory on track as a 5yo
Rip Van Winkle was a very good horse, equally effective at a mile or mile and a quarter.
Do wish Aidan would not exaggerate. Front page of the Racing Post "His big thing was his incredible speed". When racing at a mile Rip needed to be ridden for stamina. Also seemed to lose some pace this year. Although it is true he has more of it than the average Galileo. Not surprising, given the dams sire Stravinsky being a Champion Sprinter and most of the female line being miler orientated.
Stamina is an attribute who’s importance is down-played when thinking of breeding, especially by Coolmore. Which is strange, when most of their best sires have so much of it.
No doubt Coolmore did not want Rip to retire at the same time as another Galileo with even more pace, Frankel. Not very big either. Probably did not fully train on from three to four and not surprised he’s not been persevered with at five. But the top half of his pedigree suggests he will develop in to a good sire. Galileo taking the place of Saddlers Wells as the Top Sire.Good luck in your new surroundings RVW. Look forward to see your progeny.
Value Is EverythingI don’t think I ever bet on him, but I always, always considered him a danger to whoever I was on.
Hope he has a long, successful, and productive stud career.
BlueSky @pghenn.bsky.social
So don't run, just like the others always do
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Rip Van Winkle was a very good horse, equally effective at a mile or mile and a quarter.
Do wish Aidan would not exaggerate. Front page of the Racing Post "His big thing was his incredible speed". When racing at a mile Rip needed to be ridden for stamina. Also seemed to lose some pace this year. Although it is true he has more of it than the average Galileo. Not surprising, given the dams sire Stravinsky being a Champion Sprinter and most of the female line being miler orientated.
Stamina is an attribute who’s importance is down-played when thinking of breeding, especially by Coolmore. Which is strange, when most of their best sires have so much of it.
No doubt Coolmore did not want Rip to retire at the same time as another Galileo with even more pace, Frankel. Not very big either. Probably did not fully train on from three to four and not surprised he’s not been persevered with at five. But the top half of his pedigree suggests he will develop in to a good sire. Galileo taking the place of Saddlers Wells as the Top Sire.Good luck in your new surroundings RVW. Look forward to see your progeny.
Can’t have that Ginge AOB wasn’t exaggerating at all.
Would it be fair to say he knocked your face out of joint with his statement and it got your back up, hence your verbal attack?
I certainly have’t seen Rip Van Winkle do a Cape Blanco and try and gallop anything into the Ground?
He took up the running in the Sussex earlier than was ideal because Malibu Bay never did his job. Murtagh gradually lifted the pace then quickened to put distance between himself and the others including the 1000 guineas winner. Paco Boy came with his usual late run but when he looked like getting within challenging distance Murtagh gave Rip Van Winkle a smack and he quickened again. He again showed excellent speed in a tactical 4 horse race taking it up 2 furlongs out and leaving the Guineas 2nd for dead Delegator for dead. He showed plenty of speed again outpointing everything bar Canford Cliffs in the sussex.
His weakeness was his lack of stamina so when tackling 10f they ran him completely differnt and held him up. He manage to win the Jud using those tactics but it was a comparitively slow run race, which helped him no end. Twice Over is avery good horse but he’s no Sea the Stars and his class and speed won the day not an abundance of stamina. Had the race been run half a stride faster I doubt if he’d have won.
He was probably in the best form of his life in the Eclipse but never seen the trip out hanging badly in the closing stages. Went to the states where the fast pace they run over there went dead against him were fully exposed and his lack of stamina was exposed again when Cape Blanco ran him into the ground.
Johnny Murtagh made no secret that the horse was best at a mile, Aiden O’Brien with no axe to grind said he was best at a mile but you say they are wrong?
Sandown is proably one of the easiest course in the UK for getting a doubtful satyer into a challenging position whick may be why you think he was as good over 10f but like many horses in his category the final furlong being the stiffest of finishes finds them out.
Absolutely love this horse. My favourite horse for 18 months. Given me so much excitement to watch. Largest wager in my life on him to win the QE2 last year. Can’t think of another horse that has had the luck he has had with injuries and setbacks. Nor can think of one who has 3 group 1 seconds in one season?
Sorely missed.
Gutted I never got to see him in a 12f Group 1 race, dam you Aiden!
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How would you see his Derby run Fist?
Corm
I’ll answer that, if I may.
There’s little doubt that Aidan saw RVW as his Derby horse, and that JM (from 6 Coolmore entrants out of the 12 runner field) chose to ride him as his best chance. Held up (as he had been ever since his debut run) off a steady pace, he still managed to run a promising race, but never got near the winner, and even finished behind 2 of his lesser fancied stable-mates. It was class – not stamina – that got him into that position and, though his stable knew he was patently a high class horse, it still wasn’t clear what would be his optimum distance.
Not until the Eclipse, a fast run race over a stiff 10f and the first proper test of his staying power, (where he travelled all over his Derby conquerer till his stamina gave out) did they realise completely what they had on their hands.
The rest, as they say, is history. Given his head, and allowed to use his long stride, he took up the running a long way from home and turned the 2 top all-aged 1m races into processions.
Since then, of course, as a top class breeding prospect he’s had different objectives, and many think he’s failed, but (bearing in mind his trainer said"He’s basically a miler who gets 10f on fast ground"
– a startling admission, considering what it might do to his stud value) if failure includes winning a York International at beyond his best trip then he has failed most gloriously.
All imo, of course,and I could be wrong, but then so would be Fist, and the whole of the Coolmore operation. Do you really think that to be the case?Ginger
You are confusing ‘speed’ with acceleration – they arenot
the same thing.
RVW had plenty of the former, but not so much of the latter, as he demonstrated quite clearly, when held up, in the slowly run International.Of course Rip Van Winkle has speed, any horse capable of winning at a mile has a certain amount of speed. It’s just the clear exaggeration of his trainer I object to. "The big thing about this horse is his INCREDIBLE speed". No it’s not.
Rip is capable of maintaining a level of speed over a mile that few other horses are. It is his stamina at the trip that is winning him races.I come back to the "INCREDIBLE speed". If the three top milers of this generation, Rip Van Winkle, Canford Cliffs and Goldicova had a race over 5 furlongs; who would win?
I’d bet Rip Van Winkle would finish last. As he has less pure speed than the other two.In every Group 1 mile race Rip Van Winkle won, connections were at pains to make sure it was a strongly run race. So the last furlong would be about stamina at the trip, not pure speed. Had they been slowly run there’d be a much bigger danger of being outspeeded in the last furlong.
At 1m2f his "mile speed" is an asset and Rip does not need a truly run race at the distance.
I was a fan of Rip Van Winkle. His ability (particularly at three) was under-estimated by a lot of people. I certainly would not in any way say he "failed". Rip Van Winkle was a top class racehorse who was a great credit to his connections.
It is a shame Aidan sees fit to exaggerate attributes, it seems with one eye on the stud value. Rip Van Winkle does not need it and am sure he will be a success at stud.
Value Is EverythingSpeed sells GT, stamina doesn’t.
Agreed Cormack, but should it be that way?
Montjeu is one of the biggest stamina influences in the breeding sheds, but has an excellant reputation of getting Group 1 winners.
Galileo himself never won a Group 1 race at a mile, yet is proving capable of getting milers when put with the right dam. And I’d say is the best sire around at the moment.So the breeding industries fixation with speed, does not make sense.
Value Is Everything
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