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I just want to know whether there have been previous cases of a horse being rated by its connections as being brilliant, but kept on being beaten, but eventually did prove to be brilliant.
I was looking at the Derby field last night and, regarding RVW, wondered the last time a horse had won the Derby after finishing out of the first three on its last two outings?
Snow Knight is a guess. (04 ????????)
Edit: wrong guess – 23. Guardian Classic Trial and Lingfield Derby Trial.
It depends what you mean by "brilliant" I suppose Gerald. Hawk Wing is one example of a horse who was massively overhyped but put up one performance at Newbury that some would describe as "brilliant".
The number of horses overhyped over the years though must be as long as your arm yet a lot of people still bet on the back of hype.
Dr. Devious failed to win his two races prior to the Derby.
Second in the Craven to Marju and seventh in Kentucky Derby, but Peter Chapple-Hyam was confident he’d win The Derby.Generous was fourth in the Guineas, but Paul Cole was still very bullish that he too would win the Derby – and boy, how he did !
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
There was an old saying in racing ‘fourth in the Guineas, first in the Derby’. Don’t know where it oroginated or whether it had any basis in fact in the ‘old’ days (I think it originated in the 19th century).
Last horse to win Derby having finished out of first three in last two outings – anyone?
There was an old saying in racing ‘fourth in the Guineas, first in the Derby.
I think there is a little bit of a misconception of the Guineas being a good Derby trial generally. Ok it has its moments granted but the last horse to win a Guineas then the Derby was Nashwan in 1989. Before that it was ……………………….. anyone? Nijinsky?
Generous was forth in the Guineas and first in the Derby but other than him how many horses in the last 25 years have been beaten in the Guineas before going on to win the Derby?
Ever year "classic form is best" gets trotted out but when it comes to the Derby I’d rather be looking at the Dante, The Derrinstown and the Dee Stakes.
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There was an old saying in racing ‘fourth in the Guineas, first in the Derby
It may well have been more pertinent when more horses where bred to stay the Derby trip, and used the Guineas as a stepping stone. Certainly there seemed to be more dual winners in Nijinsky’s day.
Things have changed in the breeding world since then, and speed has a much higher priority.New Approach ran well in two Guineas, as did The Minstrel. Secreto came to the Derby via the Guineas as did Dancing Brave (moral winner in 1986).
Didn’t Vincent O’Brien think that Royal Academy was the ‘new Nijinsky’ and his judgement was only vindicated when the horse won in America?
Hmmm I can’t tell you the last winner to be out of the top 3 on his last 2 starts, but in the last 14 years such horses are 0-1-11. Only placed horse was Eagle Mountain – 4th in the Racing Post Trophy and 4th in the 2000 Guineas.
Are you implying George that Rip Van Winkle may run in the King George?
Surely Fame and Glory would be the idea horse for that.
Lit blue paper, and retired to a safe distance, but just a damp squib so far.
You want me to say July cup,dont you Gerald?
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