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What have we got against stamina? Which horse would you rather breed from? A sound horse who won the Derby, or a fragile speedster like Calyx? Which is likely to produce the more robust, durable horse?
If we keep breeding for speed, don’t start the sentimental crying in the Memorials section when more and more horses start breaking down.
Is there a link between stamina and soundness and/or between Speed and weakness, CAS?
Value Is EverythingI’ve got nothing against stamina – as stated numerous times I am a traditionalist and don’t seek change here.
But I am also a realist.
Breeders are getting a bad rap here, but they are merely vendors supplying a global marketplace.
It’s the marketplace – not breeders – which has come to view 1m2f, not 1m4f, as the trip that matters most.
The Classics are a remnant from a race programme from literally centuries ago when 2m4f – twice as far! – was the trip that mattered most.
And when what a horse did at four and beyond mattered more than it’s Classic year.
It was probably better then in many ways but it’s not the world we now live in.
The Derby at 1m4f is in real danger of being a bigger future source of NH stallions than Flat ones.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I should have thought that going faster is more dangerous than going a bit slower, Ginger.
Why would anyone want to breed from an unsound horse like Calyx who was only able to withstand four races in his entire career before retirement?
Where is the evidence that the 10f French Derby attracts a better standard of horse than The Epsom Derby, Ian?
Value Is EverythingI really ought to ignore that post on a point of general principle – it’s The Derby NOT The “Epsom” (cringe!) Derby! – but just this once….
It all starts this year, then!
St Mark’s Basilica v Adayar!
Hubba! Hubba! Hubba!
Who is the better racehorse??
Who will be worth more to be syndicated at stud?
Who will breeders most want to send mares to?
Game on!
We will review the situation in 2031!
Deal?
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Are you really saying the Derby should be reduced in trip all because of one year, Ian? Am surprised at you.
…And at the time of the Derby – in early June – Bolshoi Ballet was thought to be a better horse than St Marks Basilica anyway. ie Coolmore sent what they thought was their best horse to Epsom; not Chantilly.
Deal, 2031.
Value Is EverythingI should have thought that going faster is more dangerous than going a bit slower, Ginger.
Why would anyone want to breed from an unsound horse like Calyx who was only able to withstand four races in his entire career before retirement?
Sprinters in general tend to run more races and race at an older age.
Is that due to not being stallion prospects. More geldings perhaps to help them settle but also maybe they are not that weak overall??Agree about Calyx though as a breeding prospect
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
“Are you really saying the Derby should be reduced in trip all because of one year, Ian? Am surprised at you.”
Where did I write it “should” be reduced in trip?
Surprised at YOU tbh.
I have merely listed the factors that make it inevitable The Derby over 1m4f as we know it will come under continual threat henceforth.
Not simply because of this year but, as stated NUMEROUS times, the direction in which global Flat racing has been heading for years now.
6th July 2031, put it in your diary now – the day of reckoning!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Last 3 winners of the Derby
Adayar
Serpentine
Anthony van dyckLast 3 winners of the french Derby
St marks basillica
Mishriff
SotsassIf that trend of the better horses emerging/running in the 10f french race they may well consider it
That would be some way off though
I certainly don’t think it would take anything away from the race if they lopped 2 furlongs off both the Derby and the Leger
Traditionalists would be unhappy but they are whenever anything changes
Tbh, Masar and Wings Of Eagles were no great shakes either and Harzand never won an all-aged Group 1.
You have to go back to Golden Horn to find the last Derby winner who lived up to the great race’s name.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"If you shorten the Derby distance presumably you also have to shorten the Oaks. What about the Irish Derby and Irish Oaks?
Hats off to you, sir, for declining to use the odious Epsom or English prefixes that vex me so much!
To answer you, surely there is no “have to” about anything?
And the Irish Classics are in a different jurisdiction, so it’s up to them.
No one copied the French when they changed the distance of the Prix du Jockey Club.
Not so far anyway!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I think the “no, it should be 12f” folk, have argued for nothing tangible.
BUY THE SUN
To quote that pair out of Little Britain..”But I’m a lady“. Anyhow…
To answer you, surely there is no “have to” about anything?
And the Irish Classics are in a different jurisdiction, so it’s up to them.
Yes I know there is no imperative but it just seems silly to change the Derby and not the Oaks – why would you? The Irish can do their own thing but if the Kentucky Derby, French Derby and actual Derby are over 10f why would they stick at 12f? The Irish Derby would likely ended up stranded with more good horses from Epsom going elsewhere next so they could end up forced to change too, or fade. As Ginger says it risks affecting the whole Pattern.
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