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Fair comment from Gladders, I always said there was ultimately less – not more – to Sunak than met the eye and if today is as good as he can be there’s an argument for saying my original verdict on him was correct.
His Party is splintered, gluing the warring fragmented factions into unity is problematic.
I’m sure he didn’t want to appease the Right by appointing Braverman, but without her support Johnson would surely have got the 100 and we all know how bad Sunak is at winning actual elections.
He will be desperate to get rid of her if an opportunity presents itself.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"It sounds like the Conservatives are struggling to find a candidate for the City of Chester by-election.
As there is very little chance of winning, no one from HQ wants to be parachuted into the seat (especially as it is likely to be carved up in boundary changes).
HQ is trying to get someone from the local party to stand – but (surprise surprise) no one is that enthusiastic given that on current polling they are likely to finish in third place and the local party (who probably voted for Truss) are not best pleased at being ignored by HQ.
This could be a real problem for the Conservatives from now. Will the membership really want to put in the hard yards when HQ has overturned their vote and not allowed them a say on her successor?
The current majority sentiment among the Tory Party membership will be hard to gauge.
I tend to think of them broadly as being on the right of the party (activists are seldom moderate on either the right or left of politics) but also quite deferential, especially the Mail- rather than Telegraph-reading ones, to the upper echelons of the parliamentary party.
On one level they could be livid at being denied a vote this time, on the other many may be privately embarrassed about the choice last time they did have a say.
There might be quite a bit of “the MPs know best” flying about.
How this translates into willingness to go out and knock on doors etc depends on whether Sunak’s advent ushers in a revival in the country’s economic fortunes and with it opinion polls that start to swing back in their favour.
Jury out on all that right now.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Well Richard, i gave you 48 hours but your time is up; cant believe you couldnt find references on internet – It’s Out There
You’re fired!!
The Blob (or more accurately The Left-Of-Centre blob, UK):
Disclaimer – some of this has been sourced, some is my own.Dominant in the institutions that hold power, including most of the media esp the TV stations; ITV led by McCall, backed up by her journos Peston, Brand, Wiener, Carl Dinnen. The Civil Service, the NHS, the legal system (including the judiciary), education (especially the universities), social media, most public bodies.
Its roots are in the Blair/Brown years (both of whom did much to facilitate it).
Now with more influence and quick to embrace whatever is fashionably progressive. It has a common language (sustainability, gender fluidity,stakeholding, governance, inclusion, diversity); its own shared ideology (pro-net zero, anti-Brexit, anti-grammar schools — while sending their kids to expensive private schools, activism) and agreed abbreviations (LGBT+, BLM, CSR, CRT).
The Tory government has become its target, but its real target is the voters, so forces the narrative to influence.
A daily pounding on broadcast news, which has already largely decided it wants a New(ish) Labour government led by the New Messiah, Starmer. ITV’s McCall has positioned its morning schedule of progs to ensure one after one their 1st 10 minutes are taken up by having a pop at the current govt; GMB, Lorraine, This Morning – they’re all at it.
The Blob (Left-Of-Centre) smells blood, and it aint red.History of The Blob:
The Blob first became a political phenomenon in the 1980s when the then US secretary of education, William J Bennett, claimed that an uncontrollable “blob” of bureaucrats was devouring money that would be better spent in the classroom.
The phrase was a natural for Michael Gove when he was education secretary, to try to explain his own frustrations at what he saw as attempts by civil servants and the education establishment to frustrate their agenda.Many thanks for the explanation which, I’ll be honest, I did not think would be forthcoming, at least not in such detail. I will have to look further and make up my own mind
I’d be sad if there were zero centre-right contributors to this thread and I too welcome Wilts’s interesting thoughts, which are always expressed in civilised terms and I endeavour to reciprocate in kind when replying.
I read an item today which floated an idea which had been in my mind for many months.
Have the days of PMs with tenures of the duration of a Thatcher or a Blair gone forever?
Is perpetual political chaos the new normal?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63383616
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Richard, Ian
Always good to agree to disagree, in a civil manner.
I’m ‘old school’. I remember the 80s and Friday evening’s at my local, before heading off into town. The days when my mates and I, in our 20s then, would sit around in the pub early evening and often have good rows about Thatcher and the Labour party. We had a mix of political views, but even when discussion got heated, we were still good mates and the furious debates were always broken every 20-30 minutes with a “Right, who wants another pint?”There was none of the “I wont have a Tory as a friend, ever!” nonsense that i’ve heard frequently over last few years, esp amongst younger peeps.
Night all
“There was none of the “I wont have a Tory as a friend, ever!” nonsense that i’ve heard frequently over last few years, esp amongst younger peeps.”
I was born in 1972, so the first general election in which I was old enough to vote was that in 1992. In both that year and 1997, I actually voted Conservative. Why? Because their relatively centrist policies appealed to me the most and were more balanced and fundamentally sensible than those of the opposition.
New Labour swept to victory in 1997, by claiming the so-called centre ground, and this forced the Tories further to the right. I didn’t like Tony Blair from day one- he always had something of the jumped-up second-hand car salesman about him, in my eyes- and policies such as PFI and, of course, the backing of George Bush meant that I simply could not support the Tory Lite party.
I then started to learn more about neoliberalism and the drastic toll economic growth was causing the environment; crucially, I also became more socially aware when my then-partner lost her job. This caused me to look in more depth at the resources and support structures available to those who, through no fault of their own, were suddenly left without employment. The neoliberal mantra is that those who do not work are always indolent; that simply isn’t true.
I have voted Green since the 2001 election; people say that it’s a wasted vote but I live in a safe Conservative seat (although, hopefully, that will change in 2024) and, to all intents and purposes, it makes no difference for whom I vote, so I may as well vote with my convictions. If I lived in a marginal seat, I’d vote for whoever was most likely to take it from the Tories.
The Tories, aided and abetted by the billionaire media moguls who drive the neoliberal agenda, have moved so far to the right that they are now an extremist party. Austerity meant stripping the state to the bone, which is why it’s going to be nigh-on impossible for Sunak’s government to find further cuts, and the Brexit referendum merely gave a voice to all those sad Little Englanders who believe that Britannia still rules the waves, bless ‘em.
Anyone who supports the Conservative party in its current guise is one of three things. They may be unaware of the facts, in which case they should learn more about what’s happening in our country. Equally, they may be incapable of looking at data and processing it objectively, which doesn’t say much about their computational skills. Finally, they may have looked at the facts, taken everything on board, and simply do not care that the average person is becoming poorer and that the rich are getting richer. They simply don’t care that schools, hospitals and other essential services are being left on their knees. They don’t care that those unable to work due to illness or disability are left reaching for the begging bowl. They don’t care that the long-term health of our ecosystems is being trashed for the short-term benefit of multinational corporations. They don’t care that profit is privatised, while risk is nationalised.
To either not understand or not care about these things- these essential things which are what bind society together- makes someone one of two things: stupid or callous.
I do not want stupid or callous people as my friends.
Rather than being forced to the right, I think it’s something political parties often do in the aftermath of a defeat, a time when their parliamentary party have been humiliated and the activists temporarily have more influence.
Labour went to the left after their 1979 defeat amid the rise of the Militant Tendency, it took the consequential wipe out in 1983 (tbf to Michael Foot the emergence of the SDP didn’t help) before sanity slowly was restored.
After 1997, the Tories made the same mistake – moving towards your extreme is never a solution and they too were crushed in 2001.
After a bad loss, the extremist activists always demand a go at doing it their way, it always leads to a further heavy defeat and an even longer period out in the wilderness.
Few, it seems, are ever interested in learning the lessons of history.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Few, it seems, are ever interested in learning the lessons of history.”
The most important of which is that human nature will never change.
For someone with £730 million in the bank you would think he could afford a suit that fits properly.
I’ve lost so many friends since the referendum. My best friend from school (mixed race, daughter of immigrant parents, Johnson adoring Conservative voter): my pal from the village that I used to go to folk concerts with(UKIP voter who, the day after Jo Cox was murdered said that Farage was the only honest politician in the country). Another old friend whose husband kept sending me vote leave stuff: just didn’t want to have to meet up with him and his views. Only problem is most of my new found political friends would probably unfriend me if they knew I loved horse racing. Pre referendum I don’t think I discussed politics with everyone but for some reason people who vote far right seem to slip their racism and xenophobia into everyday conversation because they seem to think that everyone agrees with them.
I always bear in mind that Margaret Thatcher and Eric Heffer maintained a friendly, cordial relationship despite the political chasm between them. If they could do so, why can’t everyone else?
“people who vote far right seem to slip their racism and xenophobia into everyday conversation”
Come on, moehat, people who vote far right aren’t racist or xenophobic.
They’re just financially responsible.
“I always bear in mind that Margaret Thatcher and Eric Heffer maintained a friendly, cordial relationship despite the political chasm between them. If they could do so, why can’t everyone else?”
THIS.^
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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