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Is racing really struggling for an audience though?
Good comparison would be with 20 years ago. Fair to say that you didnt have to pre book Cheltenham back then but on the other hand Sandown seemed a lot busier than now
Perhaps the only real benchmark would be to cmpare C4 audiences then to now. A Newmarket on a saturday say. That way you get an idea of the commited following
Racing is often seen as a coffin dodgers sport and thus assumed to have a declining (as well as senile and smelly) audience. But i have found that punters with a casual interest in the sport grow to love it more once they get tired of the screaming hype of football. In many ways thats where the untapped audience is…..
Clivex,
When Channel 4 first came on air, Channel 4 racing, along with Countdown, was one of it’s main ratings winners. I think in the early day’s Channel 4 Racing was only shown during the week, while ITV’s Saturday show, ‘World Of Sport (with Dickie Davies) still showed the weekend racing – do you remember the ITV 7 bet incidentally lol.
Anyway, when World Of Sport ceased, Channel 4 Racing then took over blanket coverage of the racing that was allowed for ITV/Channel 4 and audiences were very impressive.
Again, I am not certain, but I would be willing to bet on it, that i’m sure I read somewhere that 20 years later (current day) Channel 4 Racing has lost almost half the viewers it had back then.
I would love someone who knows for certain to clarify this though.
Mike
It may be difficult and unfair to compare C4 viewing figures on racing now compared to 20 years ago – was horse racing broadcast live on screen 20 years ago in bookmakers? If not then the C4 viewing figures would be higher then as punters would have stayed at home to watch it on TV.
Also many people ( myself included ) watch RUK or ATR instead of C4.I do know that C4 stated that they get more viewers on a saturday afternon if they broadcast an old film than they do if they show horse racing which is why they need help to continue broadcasting horse racing.
With reference to evening racing – do many people go into the bookies at this time? I was under the impression that very few do – perhaps one of the forum members that work in a bookies shop can answer this?
Has there been a serious analysis of the cost/benefits of all this additional racing?
How much turnover is there on say a Kempton 7.00 November twilight class 5? Is it worth it?
and has this "additional racing" drawn cash away from existing punting? Only so much to go round surely?
The bandit race meetings were got rid of because they only generated 60% of the turnover that they were projected to .. I would think that this will all end in tears again. People only have so much time they will devote to anything. Anyone hanging around in the bookies after tea time really needs to just get a life, unless of course they work there.
SC,
I live in a very populated little area and my local betting shop (A very nice Corals shop) is heaving during the day. I personally never go in on an evening – and my often ventures to the shop to top up on Grolsch on an evening also show that very few people go in on a night. In fact, it’s often one man and his dog in the shop on an evening, and he is usually on the machines.
OK, one shop can’t speak for many thousands UK wide, but I would be very surprised if the trend is not the same.
Mike
Also, a lot of people would watch racing 20 years ago because it was about the only serious (?!) sport on live… Sat channles have naturally diluted all the audiences for all sports
Agreed…an unfair comparison
OK, one shop can’t speak for many thousands UK wide, but I would be very surprised if the trend is not the same.
.. I can concurr that it is same in Prestwick .. not the same bloke obviously but the same machine addict type on a night.
They all have the same look about them, it’s in their eyes, like they are really busy and pre-occupied doing nothing or being hunted, if you know what I mean?
Clivex,
When Channel 4 first came on air, Channel 4 racing, along with Countdown, was one of it’s main ratings winners. I think in the early day’s Channel 4 Racing was only shown during the week, while ITV’s Saturday show, ‘World Of Sport (with Dickie Davies) still showed the weekend racing – do you remember the ITV 7 bet incidentally lol.
Anyway, when World Of Sport ceased, Channel 4 Racing then took over blanket coverage of the racing that was allowed for ITV/Channel 4 and audiences were very impressive.
Again, I am not certain, but I would be willing to bet on it, that i’m sure I read somewhere that 20 years later (current day) Channel 4 Racing has lost almost half the viewers it had back then.
I would love someone who knows for certain to clarify this though.
Mike
A quote from bbc.co.uk:
The Grand National re-run, shortly after the big race, was watched by 5.1 million people, almost four times as many people as watched the Cheltenham Gold Cup live on Channel Four in March.Whilst it is certainly true that the vast majority of owners go into ownership as a hobby with the expectation of a loss it is equally true that this applies to the vast majority of punters because the vast profits of the bookmakers and the exchanges ensure that we are starting odds against. Of course both groups are hoping for the longshot to come in and in the same way that punters dream ofr the life changing "big win" so do owners dream of the horse that makes it big. It is the fascination of the sport that this happens sufficiently often to bring us all back – owners and punters alike – until we run out of money or prefer to place our hard earned shekels elsewhere. Its more fun than dabbling on Lotto even though we know that there is a jackpot winner every week and it could be us.
In the interest of the Sport( that we all enjoy) it is appropriate that the odds are rebalanced from time to time to ensure that the losses are more fairly shared and hence our activities have a better chance of a long term future. It is no more invidious for owners to ask for a decrease in their losses and hold out for a better return than it is for punters to resist any increase in commision rates on the exchanges. We are all aware that the Bookies are the big winners and all resent it but it seems almost impossible to force by law ( eg peter savill’s efforts) or any other means for the bookmakers to return more to racing direct. Neither the owner has to own or the punter to bet but as one who indulges in both I cannot see any reason why extra commission should not be paid by the one to ensure the long term participation by the other. The failure of the non bookmaking non course owning participants in the sport to agree a fair divide of the losses is the major factor that racing could face terminal decline particulalry if the Maktooums and Abdullahs decided to withdraw their masive funding in the UK scene and concentrate more on the USA where they are more successful in terms of big races won and more prize money per earner received.
As regards the desire to reduce the amount of racing by lopping off the low grade end most people are perhaps in favour and the Irish HRM for instance do not frame races for horses with a rating below 45 and effectively we do the same by the shortage of 0 to 60 handicaps and the phasing out of the banded racing experiment. The great difficulty until horses start racing is to know which horses will end up in which grade. The big purchasers ( Coolmore included and their record is pretty good) often spend millions on horses who would be at the tail end of a funeral procession whilst the Cockney Rebels fortunately crop up almost every year. There are certainly some poorly bred specimens that the sales market suggests have not got a prayer and is normally right – but not always and whist the odds are long they are certainly not as long as Lotto affords us. Certainly the handicappers could accelerate the trend of upping the ability ante before a horse can get in a race after its 2y0 season thereby accelerating market forces that the poorest horses make the biggest losses and are thus withdrawn from racing but this is only a trimming exercise as is the debate of sharing losses between participants fairly.
In general I am in favour of letting market forces dictate the future but as with the economy in general we could give it a push and a shove in the "right" direction by a use of the tax system as we expect the Chancellor to do for Great Britain limited and I am hoping the HRA will do for their arrear of authority.
All fair points Galejade .. the problem that I have with the situation at the minute, is the seemingly constant shifting of the goal posts. These changes all seem to be dictated by the Big3 bookmakers and all work to their benefit, in no uncertain terms.
I have never owned a horse or even a share of one, but this constant increase in the number of fixtures is taking money out of the pot that isn’t there. Nobody asked for the increase in fixtures other than the Big3, as far as I am aware .. they want to get this fast action vegas type gambling going and racing is just another vehicle for it.
Personally, I think the new gambling act will serve the best interests of the government. The white list, the countries where bookies can operate from are all subject to UK tax .. they will use the bookies as tax collectors, once things have settled down a bit. Owners, Punters and Trainers should wise up a bit and not blindly get sucked into it.
Galejade,
You want market forces to dictate the future and yet somehow seem to think changing the punter/owner input ratio in favour of owners will be the result.
Racehorse ownership is at an all-time high, punters are leaving the sport in droves. Go figure!
Glenn,
you may well be right but my understanding was that although traditional off course bookmakers were losing punters this was more than being compensated by the growth in on course betting punters and the exchange punters.
The reason the levy is falling – I am told – is that whereas racing gets 2 to 2.7% from bookmaker punters(10% of Gross profits) it only gets 0.5% from those who punt on the exchanges. As more punters switch to the exchanges then racing income falls.
As I am led to believe total pounds wagered on horse racing is not falling.
It would be possible to post at length on how turnover means different things to bookmakers and exchanges, but the essence is that what you’ve been told is wrong.
As is the assertion that more money is moving from bookmakers to exchanges – if anything the amounts traded on BF are static or falling.
AP
AP,
your response sounds authorative but then so does the owner of a string of betting shops who has given me a series of figures on Gross Profits ( rather than turnover) which now form the basis of the Levy.
Please feel free to post at length as to how racing benefits to the same extent from a pound bet on the Exchanges as it does on the bookmakers.
10cm column listing Rob Wright’s tips makes for racing’s loin-cloth in today’s Times (with directions to times online)
..and Charles Cyser bails out over derisory prizemoney in the mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a … ge_id=1967
A sport in decline?
my understanding was that although traditional off course bookmakers were losing punters this was more than being compensated by the growth in on course betting punters and the exchange punters.
The reason the levy is falling – I am told – is that whereas racing gets 2 to 2.7% from bookmaker punters(10% of Gross profits) it only gets 0.5% from those who punt on the exchanges. As more punters switch to the exchanges then racing income falls.
The volume of money ‘traded’ on the run-of-the-mill handicap chases that form the core of my betting seems to have peaked and stabilised over the last year or so at around 500K (250K ‘staked’) on Betfair. Does anyone know how this compares to the typical amount staked country-wide on the books and on-course?
Or more generally, what is the percentage of total turnover on horseracing that’s bet on the exchanges?
To my knowledge, this is the third time that Mr Cyzer has either retired or scaled down his operation. He needs the money like a duck needs more feathers; this kind of thing is what he does periodically.
I do believe he tried to set up a US operation but came home because he loved the racing here. Perhaps Seagull can fill in the details.
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