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Haha I actually laughed at my own quip on that one tbf. Thats how sad I am!
Yeah I’m not sure mate – Dark Angels generally don’t mind top of the ground, but the Dam is an Authorised who liked to get his toe in mind. Top Rank himself has just produced (in my opinion) his best performance on ‘Good’, so hopefully he is flexible enough to handle some G/F if neccessary.
If he was carrrying some condition, as was rumoured before Donny, he’d have to be a player in the Lockinge. Think I’m on the verge of talking myself in to getting on for the QA at 33’s (presumably bigger on Betfair) to be honest!
BUY THE SUN
Personally I don’t think you can put Palace Pier’s Ascot defeat down to the ground as he produced his best numbers at Deauville in his previous run on ground described as heavy.
By the way,this current trend of having joint names on trainers licences does anyone know why?
That’s besides the obvious of preparing to hand over the reins of the stable to a younger generation?
good luck to allYeah pure nepotism mate, now that the BHA are allowing it. I think ‘Crisford & Son’ (sounds like an accounting firm) were one of the first.
Agree about Palace Pier, wasn’t the ground that beat him at Ascot. I think he’s a bit of a grinder personally, and think Daddy and Thaddy will have him over 10f before too long.
BUY THE SUN
The fractions he ran at Royal ascot last year were very very fast TTC
I think he won at deauville despite the ground and couldn’t repeat it at ascot
Why did Palace Pier not run at Goodwood for the Sussex Stakes? Is the answer because it’s a speed track? If so, I’d say there’s your answer as to how fast he is rather than sectionals.
Don’t forget Acquitted had him in trouble at one point in the Newcastle race before the SJP as well.
It’s a tricky one to ponder because I’d almost draw a line through the JLM form personally on that ground with so many running dogs, so we’ve got the SJP and QEII as form guides.
For this race, I personally would rather wait to see Palace Pier prove or he not he is definitely the top miler by winning the Lockinge first on decent ground.
I’d be happy to take the shorter odds in that case for the Queen Anne rather than go in now with question marks.
There’s also an element of doubt about whether he’ll even race over a mile this season. JG hasn’t said anything about him yet to confirm his targets. Maybe he thinks he’s already a 10F horse?
Not a bad performance by PP in the QE2 considering. The Revenant is a serious horse on heavy ground and PP did lose a shoe coming out the stalls.
Only 2 horses covered the final 2fs faster than palace pier all week at Royal ascot
Battaash and equilateral in the king stand
He finished much faster than Hello Youmzain the winner of the diamond jubilee
And so much faster than Alpine star, apparently he was 15 lengths behind her at the 2f pole and only 1 length at the line
Fast horses can run slow sectionals but slow horses can’t run fast ones.
If he can replicate that this season then he will take all the beating.
5/1 was definitely worth taking at not surprisingly didnt last long.
He still has credit in the FF91 betting bank after the JLM and St James Palace so I’m perfectly aware how biased I am with this horse like we all can be prone too on horses who win for us.
I think this horse could be a superstar and that’s why I was happy to take what is a pretty short price in ante post terms this far out.
I completely understand someone who doesn’t share that view being dubious though after champions day
For a stallion purpose there must be a chance they try 10fs this season, hopefully in the Juddmonte International later in the season.
Fair play FF! And you may well be right as well. Like I say, I was a big fan last year also, backed him in every race. Probably my biggest issue with going against him (if I do which I may not anyway) is what do we take him on with.
I still can’t quite get on with sectionals though. I use them as an added thought process but I think there’s much to understand yet about them and it’s not quite as simple as time over distance when trying to compare. Hello Youmzain for example was very fast out the gates and did a lot of running across the first 4F. It was only his stamina in the end that won him that race in the final 2F.
Plus the ground conditions all week at Ascot were a bit all over the place.
Palace Pier got a dream slipstream ride from Frankie as well which likely played a part in PP being able to quicken like he did. It doesn’t prove he has tactical speed or anything like that it basically proves if you ran that race again in exactly the same way in exactly the same conditions he might run those sectionals again. But it doesn’t necessarily help us for a completely different and new race.
Unless there was a specific reason he didn’t go to Goodwood and I’m not sure there is one that would kinda prove to me he doesn’t have tactical speed and he needs a really strong pace yo have a chance over a mile. I wonder if JG would consider a pacemaker for him. He never really goes for that does he usually, you know for sure AOB would.
I don’t know much of anything about sectionals FF, so I will bow to your superior knowledge on that one. I’m thinking 10f due to my own eye and the dam being out of Nayef. I might be wrong, but you can only go with what you think.
BUY THE SUN
I know absolutely nothing about sectionals
However Google knows plenty
Times are times frenchy they are cold hard numbers that don’t lie, its just down to us to interpret them
Palace Pier was held up in a slowly run race so has shown a very fast turn of foot to run against the pace bias that day.
So he is fast and doesn’t need a strong run race.
We know that because he’s already done it.
Whether he can do it again is something we have no control of, all we can do is analyse his previous runs and take a price that takes this into account.
Actually you are right there FF it was a slowish race, so it proved he can quicken off a slow pace, but actually that’s even worse really because most horses can quicken off a slow pace. Still doesn’t tell us much.
You’re saying he’s very fast presumably because of this statement that no horses outside the kings stand ran a faster last 2 furlongs but that’s a leading headline and it’s actually misleading because I checked the sectionals in the Queen Anne just to compare and loads of them ran faster from 3-1F. For example Fox Chairman who finished 10th and is no more than a Listed winner ran a quicker two furlongs than Palace Pier did.
All it proves is that he ran the last 2 furlongs in the time he did at that stage of his career in those conditions. No guarantee he’ll run it again and no guarantee he has a very fast turn of foot.
Anyway I know why you picked him and it’s a more than reasonable shout at the odds, just not sure these sectionals from the SJP tell us that much if anything.
I’m a stats man but in this case eyes and ears I think are more relevant. There’s a reason he skipped Goodwood and went to France and that’s because he doesn’t have a very strong turn of foot. I think actually JG said something to back up that theory at some point last season. I’ll keep him to strong straight miles or something he said?
He outspeeded wichita and pinatubo in a slowly run race
Doesn’t matter if you use your eyes, the form book, trends or sectionals
A slow horse wouldn’t have done that
From 2F to finish yes. From 2F to 1F no. How about 2.2F to finish or 1.8 to finish, we don’t see that and that’s the problem with sectionals.
Pinatubo and Wichita are both better over shorter plus it wasn’t slowly run it was mid to slow according to ATR which makes a difference as Pinatubo and Wichita would still have used up too much energy.
He’s got pace Palace Pier that’s not a question. How much is the question
What does that matter Frenchy when he’s running over a straight mile at a stiff track? He’s proven he’s fast enough?
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!The overall point I’m making is whether he might need 10F now, the straight mile at Ascot didn’t help last time albeit we could find excuses perhaps. He did run a furlong in the QEII almost as quick as he did in the SJP though
Plenty of horses that want 10f are fine over a straight mile at Ascot though. Given decent enough ground i’d say he’ll be fine. Given normal progress from 3 to 4, he should be one of the top horses this year.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!
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