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Didnt believe that the ground for the first two days at cheltenham was riding soft, and with Kempes overturning Go Native and Cooldine not seeing out the trip quite as effectively today, when heavily fancied by Mullins, I still think that was the case at cheltenham. Killyglen definitely looks like the one to take from the 3mile novice chasing division for me.
Cooldine confirmed with a chest infection after the race after scoping badly. He was beaten long before stamina came into play today and surely anyone could see he was not half the horse today as he was at Cheltenham….where he thumped Gone To Lunch and Killyglen. For God sake he had thumped Rare Bob earlier in the season as well.
Didnt believe that the ground for the first two days at cheltenham was riding soft, and with Kempes overturning Go Native and Cooldine not seeing out the trip quite as effectively today, when heavily fancied by Mullins, I still think that was the case at cheltenham. Killyglen definitely looks like the one to take from the 3mile novice chasing division for me.
Cooldine confirmed with a chest infection after the race after scoping badly. He was beaten long before stamina came into play today and surely anyone could see he was not half the horse today as he was at Cheltenham….where he thumped Gone To Lunch and Killyglen. For God sake he had thumped Rare Bob earlier in the season as well.
That would explain why he jumped like a pig then!
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If Big Zeb had jumped the last and got away from the fence, he would have beaten Master Minded there, i have no doubt about that.
Hurricane Fly was impressive, after getting boxed in for a while before nudging his way through.
3/1 for next years’ Champion Hurdle is ridiculous though.
Agreed Gaz – it’s far too big. There’s only one possible horse in the Hurricane’s league – only one who can quicken off a fast pace and can cruise up to them on the bridle and go past. Both are too big
Oh come on Irish that’s taking things way out of proportion. Are you trying to tell us that Hurricane Fly’s peformance today was as good as Binocular’s at Aintree when he destroyed Celestial Halo and he couldn’t win the Champion Hurdle. You have to consider what he was running against.
Before you say it I know I was touting Binocular after only one run as a CH horse but he’s a very different type of horse. Hurricane Fly’s main asset is his abilty to quicken of an ordinary pace, which we know he can do. The question is can he do it in top class company and right now that is a very difficult question to answer.
His weaknessif he has one is many many speed horses have gone to Cheltenham and the pace there kills them dead. The most recent example I can think of is Strarluck who had speed to burn until he went to Chelters and found nothing after going a faster pace than he had never encountered before.
If Big Zeb had jumped the last and got away from the fence, he would have beaten Master Minded there, i have no doubt about that.
Hurricane Fly was impressive, after getting boxed in for a while before nudging his way through.
3/1 for next years’ Champion Hurdle is ridiculous though.
Agreed Gaz – it’s far too big. There’s only one possible horse in the Hurricane’s league – only one who can quicken off a fast pace and can cruise up to them on the bridle and go past. Both are too big
Oh come on Irish that’s taking things way out of proportion. Are you trying to tell us that Hurricane Fly’s peformance today was as good as Binocular’s at
Aintree when he destroyed Celestial Halo and he couldn’t win the Champion Hurdle. You have to consider what he was running against.Before you say it I know I was touting Binocular after only one run as a CH horse but he’s a very different type of horse. Hurricane Fly’s main asset is his abilty to quicken of an ordinary pace, which we know he can do. The question is can he do it in top class company and right now that is a very difficult question to answer.
His weaknessif he has one is many many speed horses have gone to Cheltenham and the pace there kills them dead. The most recent example I can think of is Strarluck who had speed to burn until he went to Chelters and found nothing after going a faster pace than he had never encountered before.
Hurricane Fly has won over 2m4f in heavy ground in France and has beaten the likes of Quevega over the same trip….just because he is a pacey horse it does not mean he will not get up the hill. His profile is nothing like Binocular or Starluck (how many Grade 1s has he won?) in that he has proved he gets much further than 2 miles in very testing conditions.
Master Minded is slightly overrated. He is a 180 horse and not a 186-188 horse. He is not the best two miler since Flyingbolt. He is not the best horse in training and is not as good as Moscow Flyer. Discuss.
Master Minded is slightly overrated. He is a 180 horse and not a 186-188 horse. He is not the best two miler since Flyingbolt. He is not the best horse in training and is not as good as Moscow Flyer. Discuss.
Why is it questions like this only come up after he runs in April and loses/is over the top for the season?
Would he have lost at Sandown to Twist Magic? Is Twist Magic better than Big Zeb? These are two interesting questions IMO.
Questions like this werent even raised after his Ascot romp.
There is nothing to challenge him in the 2 mile division though. It’s weak, very weak.
Can Forpadytheplaster give him a run for his money next year? Kalahari King? Even Tatenen?
The paucity of his competition, as you point out, hwth is my point. He has few exceptional horses to conquer (though Big Zeb may prove useful). As I say
slightly
overrated.
In fairness, I have been arguing against his superiority to Moscow Flyer as a racehorse for over a year now.Hurricane Fly was impressively courageous today, especially as he’s not the biggest of horse; what worries me a bit is that Montjeus’ don’t always train on, do they…or was that just Montjeu himself? Why didn’t McCoy ride Gone to Lunch, today? I would have thought that he should have remained loyal to the horse after the Scottish National, but I suppose he can just get the ride back when he chooses to do so. Relieved to hear that Cooldine has an infection; rather feared that he’d injured himself during the race.
I really didnt understand why McCoy wasnt on Gone to Lunch today.
Great campaign by the horse. Only out of the front 2 once this season, and that was when he failed to complete the RSA!
agreed shabby – I think Master Minded is a little over rated – this year at least. People tend to forget some on the very decent 2 milers of the past
P Nicholls seemed to say on ceefax that MM just idled a bit and that they would change tactics next year. Not sure that I agree with the idling bit, but I’m sure he knows more than I do; still want to know why he isn’t easy to train…do they mean that he doesn’t take a lot of racing, or he has a physical problem? Before Cheltenham there was some sort of question over him and Ladbrokes
suspended their betting; they said afterwards it was a technical fault, nothing to do with any rumours about the horse. I just find it all a bit puzzling.
Hurricane Fly was impressively courageous today, especially as he’s not the biggest of horse; what worries me a bit is that Montjeus’ don’t always train on, do they…or was that just Montjeu himself? Why didn’t McCoy ride Gone to Lunch, today? I would have thought that he should have remained loyal to the horse after the Scottish National, but I suppose he can just get the ride back when he chooses to do so. Relieved to hear that Cooldine has an infection; rather feared that he’d injured himself during the race.
I think Montjeus not training on is merely a common misconception, Ive followed them for years and have seen nothing to suggest they train on any less than any other sire. On the flat however some (especially our middle distance) horses who are campaigned in tough races on faster conditions tend to lose their spark a bit afterwards.
IMO Hurricane Run started his 4yo season as good as he left off his 3yo season and it was really after his gd-fm KG+QE2 that he lost his way, same happened to Montjeu, Doyen, arguably Galileo too. IMO it is how the horses are campaigned that will dictate the longevity of their careers.
Hurricane Fly is not a typical Montjeu as he has so much finishing speed (even when he was on the flat), and he looks like a freak occurence, so any Montjeu rules I would ignore with him anyway. But IMO even if he was a regular Montjeu, I would expect that being campaigned over jumps on mostly ground that he seems to move well on, I would expect he could last a fair few years.
IMO that was another decent performance today but not worth his price for the champ hurdle. Go Native was IMO a default winner of the Supreme Novice, because most of the rest through their chance away by chasing the pace, and he was the right sort of horse and was produced at the right time for a victory that day. I thought before the supreme novice that it looked much weaker than last years in terms of strength and indeed it turned out even poorer than I had expected.
IMO Kempes had his conditions today and that was why he reversed form with Go Native, but that doesnt mean that Kempes is necessarily a good horse, so what Hurricane Fly has actually beaten today is a complete mystery in terms of handing out ratings, HF looks a similar style of horse to Binocular IMO (but may have more stamina), however, having seen the way Binocular can quicken at the end of a slow paced race on todays conditions IMO Bincoular would have beaten that whole field (HF included) with the way it was run today, so I cant really go with HF being shorter than binocular at present, as he ahsnt given me an indication that he is necessarily better.
Cooldine confirmed with a chest infection after the race after scoping badly. He was beaten long before stamina came into play today and surely anyone could see he was not half the horse today as he was at Cheltenham….where he thumped Gone To Lunch and Killyglen. For God sake he had thumped Rare Bob earlier in the season as well.
Yes but on what terms? Cooldine thumped Rare Bob over a shorter trip at a slower pace on the same sort of ground as today. Killyglen never acted on the surface at cheltenham at all, and was pulled up, and on (what was IMO) softer conditions at Aintree, Killyglen confirmed that he was indeed the horse he had looked to be prior to cheltenham, rather than the one he looked at cheltenham. I had suspected from how Cooldine finished that race where Cooldine beat Forpady and Rare Bob, that he wouldnt truly see out 3 miles on a similar or worse surface, and IMO he proved it today.
Obviously that is my opinion, and I respect that yours is different, but for me personally Killyglen is the best of that division to take into 3 mile chases next season, and Cooldine will only see out 3 miles if conditions arent too testing, and that is the way I will be playing the pair of them next season. As I have said before I hope Killyglen turns out for the Hennessy.
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I don’t really see how anyone can diss Masterminded on the strength of a 12l defeat of a 145 rated handicapper? He’s a very high class 2 miler who’s probably been over-raced recently – as many of his better stablemates also seem to be – and that’s nothing like the form he has shown capable of previously.
Maybe Henrietta Knight did have a point?I can’t see Imperial Commander lasting home in the Guinness GC, and though I think Notre Pere is a horse of tremendous promise, without more rain (the ground appeared no worse than g/s yesterday) he might struggle over this distance. Pity really, as otherwise he’d be an outstanding wager.
In the 3m novice hurdle, Merrydown looks a decent e.w. shout at a working man’s price. He looks an out-and-out stayer, the slow early pace around Aintree’s sharp track would have been all against him lto, so he did well to get within 8l of the winner.If Big Zeb had jumped the last and got away from the fence, he would have beaten Master Minded there, i have no doubt about that.
Hurricane Fly was impressive, after getting boxed in for a while before nudging his way through.
3/1 for next years’ Champion Hurdle is ridiculous though.
Agreed Gaz – it’s far too big. There’s only one possible horse in the Hurricane’s league – only one who can quicken off a fast pace and can cruise up to them on the bridle and go past. Both are too big
Oh come on Irish that’s taking things way out of proportion. Are you trying to tell us that Hurricane Fly’s peformance today was as good as Binocular’s at
Aintree when he destroyed Celestial Halo and he couldn’t win the Champion Hurdle. You have to consider what he was running against.Before you say it I know I was touting Binocular after only one run as a CH horse but he’s a very different type of horse. Hurricane Fly’s main asset is his abilty to quicken of an ordinary pace, which we know he can do. The question is can he do it in top class company and right now that is a very difficult question to answer.
His weaknessif he has one is many many speed horses have gone to Cheltenham and the pace there kills them dead. The most recent example I can think of is Strarluck who had speed to burn until he went to Chelters and found nothing after going a faster pace than he had never encountered before.
Hurricane Fly has won over 2m4f in heavy ground in France and has beaten the likes of Quevega over the same trip….just because he is a pacey horse it does not mean he will not get up the hill. His profile is nothing like Binocular or Starluck (how many Grade 1s has he won?) in that he has proved he gets much further than 2 miles in very testing conditions.
Starluck – No Grade 1 wins, wins only on a flat track
Binocular – 2nd in a G1 (this time last year) and won a novice hurdle at Aintree
Hurricane Fly – won a G3 on heavy against the best hurdlers in France (remember none of Neptune Collonges, Master Minded etc. were amongst the best – Kauto Star was in the top two or three), won a Grade 1 (beat Supreme Novices winner very easily by 10 lengths), won another Grade 1 (again beat the Supreme Novices winner very easily. Won on flat tracks, undulating tracks, left handed, right handed, tracks with a hill, no hill, regular hurdles, brush hurdles, good ground to heavy ground.
There’s no chinks at all in Hurricane Fly’s armour – in fact the only time he has been beaten was to a front running winner of a slow pace on heavy. All of which suggests he’ll be well suited to a strong gallop at Cheltenham.
Whilst I totally agree that Hurricane Run was extremely impressive yesterday, the one remaining unknown about him is how he handles Cheltenham. If you took Binocular’s Cheltenham form out of the equation then he too would look absolutely bombproof.
It’s very hard to favour one over the other at this stage, I’d say
He handles undulating tracks YHF – Hurricane Fly that is
. He’s won twice at Punchestown – the difference between Cheltenham and there is that one is left handed and one right, he’s also won on all types of ground and over 2m to 2m 4f.What I don’t understand about Notre Pere is that just before the Irish Grand National, Jim Dreaper stated on RTE
"He’s in real good form, he’ll be kept going, he’s got an entry at Ayr next weekend, he’s entered at Sandown (
although track is wrong way round
) and Guinness Gold Cup at Punchestown – he’ll run in the first of those that are suitable"
which to me means that Punchestown is also the "wrong way round"
However, the conditions are going to be a real leveller here today and Notre Pere should handle them better than most so I’d be inclined to still give the horse the nod but I won’t be backing him.
Miko De Beauchene could be worth a small each-way wager as he has some decent-ish form on Heavy ground but his jumping hasn’t been the best this season.
In the Champion Bumper, Luska Lad is worth an each-way bet to nothing in the hope that Dunguib flops
. He’s won twice at Punchestown – the difference between Cheltenham and there is that one is left handed and one right, he’s also won on all types of ground and over 2m to 2m 4f.
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