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Don’t buy the ground excuse for Henry – Darjina doesn’t act on soft ground and ran up to form so i’d say the ground was good enough. That was statistically Henrys toughest race on paper and he came up short, allbeit from a poor draw.
Don’t buy the ground excuse for Henry – Darjina doesn’t act on soft ground and ran up to form so i’d say the ground was good enough. That was statistically Henrys toughest race on paper and he came up short, allbeit from a poor draw.
Darjina seems to finish top 2 thesedays whatever the group is.
It’d be interesting if she came over for the QEII and Goldikova didnt as I think that 11.5 on Betfair for her to win may look very big come 27th September..
Don’t buy the ground excuse for Henry – Darjina doesn’t act on soft ground and ran up to form so i’d say the ground was good enough. That was statistically Henrys toughest race on paper and he came up short, allbeit from a poor draw.
So the fact he’s unbeaten on good or better but has beaten on softer every time doesn’t hold any sway for you?
Nonsense imo. I said he would get beat if the ground was soft and he did. Was quite obvious really. I would definitely back Henry again on good ground against any of these.
Edited to say: I also disagree with anyone who says that this hasn’t boosted Zarkava’s form given that she beat Goldikova over a mile as well as 1m2f. Zarkava is a great filly in the making.
I personally doubt Henry would have won that race, from that draw, on any ground.
Totally agree regarding Zarkava – her reputation surely growing almost daily. The form could scarcely look any better, and the manner of the victories visually spectacular. Could be one of the very best.
In the last two runnings the widest drawn horses finished 2nd both times and they started at bigger than 10/1.. The draw wouldn’t have made that much difference.
Why are some people on here assuming the ground is soft. It isn’t. Based on the times of every race bar the first (was run at a pedestrian pace as they were untried 2yo’s) this is good racing ground today. The fact that the top is coming off in places does not mean it’s soft. Excuses are being made for Henry where there are none imo. The competition was simply much stiffer today, than he has seen up to now. He needs asphalt like conditions to be at his absolute best, which is an obvious weakness that can be exploited. If it should turn up really fast on QEII day I would still play Darjina every time over him at the provisional odds. Haven’t even thrown Tamayuz into the equation.
You’re forgetting he was beaten by two horses proven on soft and had set what I believe was the quickest 6f time at Ascot until this year’s Golden Jubilee (Someone correct me if i’m wrong) prior to that so I would rather stick with the facts.
He’s up against some very useful fillies (Both proven on the ground) and the proverbial dark horse in Paco Boy who seems to go on any ground.
Good to soft i’d leave the whole race alone. Soft – I’d take him on if I were a layer.
This is what I said prior to the race and it still holds true. The RP had the ground as G/S which is all I had to go on. And Henry got beaten.
The opposition was possibly the best he’s faced all season but you could be being harsh on Raven’s Pass and New Approach.
If the ground was good or firmer I would still take Henry to beat Darjina. Tamayuz is a different matter.
Tried to quote a previous quote and ended up editing it without realising. Anyway, this is what I think.
Henry’s toughest task so far? Perhaps, but I doubt it.
He defeated a future Epsom Derby and Irish Champion Stakes winner in the process of achieving a Guineas double. He’s also beaten the top-class Ravens Pass, winner of the Celebration Mile since, twice.
His form is rock solid.
He has more than enough ability to beat the French fillies.
Darjina to beat Henry in the QEII? You must be joking! Henry is two-for-two at Ascot. Darjina has visited Ascot everytime she’s come to this country and never won.
She was competing in her own country on ground that she has performed well on in the past. She may prefer quicker conditions, but Henry’s two defeats prior to today were on soft and heavy ground – he’s a vastly superior animal on quicker ground.
Henry will beat Darjina in the QEII.
Has Henry run to his best? No. The fact that he finished behind Paco’s Boy is all the proof you need. Goldikova is also a better horse with give in the ground.
Henry was beaten by a combination of the draw and the ground.
If the ground came up good or quicker at Ascot, Henry will reverse the form.
Henry’s toughest task so far? Perhaps, but I doubt it.
He defeated a future Epsom Derby and Irish Champion Stakes winner in the process of achieving a Guineas double. He’s also beaten the top-class Ravens Pass, winner of the Celebration Mile since, twice.
His form is rock solid.
He has more than enough ability to beat the French fillies.
Darjina to beat Henry in the QEII? You must be joking! Henry is two-for-two at Ascot. Darjina has visited Ascot everytime she’s come to this country and never won.
She was competing in her own country on ground that she has performed well on in the past. She may prefer quicker conditions, but Henry’s two defeats prior to today were on soft and heavy ground – he’s a vastly superior animal on quicker ground.
Henry will beat Darjina in the QEII.
Has Henry run to his best? No. The fact that he finished behind Paco’s Boy is all the proof you need. Goldikova is also a better horse with give in the ground.
Henry was beaten by a combination of the draw and the ground.
If the ground came up good or quicker at Ascot, Henry will reverse the form.
I rarely joke in such matters. It’s easy to say an even money to 6/4 shot (Henry’s odds in the QE II) will beat an 8/1 and bigger shot (Darjina’s odds) in a race. Doesn’t take much to do that. Imo the arguments you put forth are blinkered. Beating a 12 furlong horse by a nose and on ground that plainly suited Henry and did not NA isn’t much to talk about. As for NA well I see he has quite a following on here but pray tell, how good was that Derby win in retrospect. Surely his win today was in one of the weaker grp.1s this season. A 10000/1 shot was second for goodness sake.
As for Raven’s Pass being top class, I’ll be gracious and state the jury is still out on that one. A listed win masquerading as a grp.2 is hardly worthy of top class. Compare that with Darjina who has three grp.1 wins and only been out of the first three once, going against the best the world has to offer time and again and being competitive every single time is top class where I come from. Alone her 3rd to Good Ba Ba and Creachadoir in Hong Kong is superior to anything Henry has shown. At his best Good Ba Ba would eat Henry for lunch.
Differing opinions; one of the spices in horse racing. I like it real spicy.
The fact that he finished behind Paco’s Boy is all the proof you need
Not really. Paco has been improving all season and may well be a better horse now stepped up to a mile
Although i would tend towards agreeing with the view that HTN wasnt enjoying the ground, could also be that weve seen the best of him for this year. Even with AOB’s skills, its no easy job keeping such a horse at a peak for so long
I rarely joke in such matters. It’s easy to say an even money to 6/4 shot (Henry’s odds in the QE II) will beat an 8/1 and bigger shot (Darjina’s odds) in a race. Doesn’t take much to do that. Imo the arguments you put forth are blinkered. Beating a 12 furlong horse by a nose and on ground that plainly suited Henry and did not NA isn’t much to talk about. As for NA well I see he has quite a following on here but pray tell, how good was that Derby win in retrospect. Surely his win today was in one of the weaker grp.1s this season. A 10000/1 shot was second for goodness sake.
As for Raven’s Pass being top class, I’ll be gracious and state the jury is still out on that one. A listed win masquerading as a grp.2 is hardly worthy of top class. Compare that with Darjina who has three grp.1 wins and only been out of the first three once, going against the best the world has to offer time and again and being competitive every single time is top class where I come from. Alone her 3rd to Good Ba Ba and Creachadoir in Hong Kong is superior to anything Henry has shown. At his best Good Ba Ba would eat Henry for lunch.
Differing opinions; one of the spices in horse racing. I like it real spicy.
You fail to mention the fact that Darjina has failed to win in this country on three occasions. Yes, she’s performed with credit, but when you consider she will be tackling a horse with Henry’s ability around a course that he clearly enjoys, I’ll be very surprised if she confirms Moulin form.
Not really. Paco has been improving all season and may well be a better horse now stepped up to a mile
Although i would tend towards agreeing with the view that HTN wasnt enjoying the ground, could also be that weve seen the best of him for this year. Even with AOB’s skills, its no easy job keeping such a horse at a peak for so long
Maybe, but I still don’t think he’s a better horse than Henry.
I wouldn’t write Henry off just yet.
I rarely joke in such matters. It’s easy to say an even money to 6/4 shot (Henry’s odds in the QE II) will beat an 8/1 and bigger shot (Darjina’s odds) in a race. Doesn’t take much to do that. Imo the arguments you put forth are blinkered. Beating a 12 furlong horse by a nose and on ground that plainly suited Henry and did not NA isn’t much to talk about. As for NA well I see he has quite a following on here but pray tell, how good was that Derby win in retrospect. Surely his win today was in one of the weaker grp.1s this season. A 10000/1 shot was second for goodness sake.
As for Raven’s Pass being top class, I’ll be gracious and state the jury is still out on that one. A listed win masquerading as a grp.2 is hardly worthy of top class. Compare that with Darjina who has three grp.1 wins and only been out of the first three once, going against the best the world has to offer time and again and being competitive every single time is top class where I come from. Alone her 3rd to Good Ba Ba and Creachadoir in Hong Kong is superior to anything Henry has shown. At his best Good Ba Ba would eat Henry for lunch.
Differing opinions; one of the spices in horse racing. I like it real spicy.
You fail to mention the fact that Darjina has failed to win in this country on three occasions. Yes, she’s performed with credit, but when you consider she will be tackling a horse with Henry’s ability around a course that he clearly enjoys, I’ll be very surprised if she confirms Moulin form.
I did not mention it because I did not consider it relevant. One run was conducted right after a monsun like downpour just before the race and she still finished a quality 3rd. Indian Ink flattened the field that day and was never seen again, probably flattened herself as well. The only time in her career she did not perform to her ability was in the QEII last year. Conditions were completely against her that day. It’s my opinion only but I believe soft at Ascot is like soft nowhere else. Finally her run this year in the Queen Anne would hardly qualify as a failure. If you are basing your argument only on the fact that Henry has course and distance form then you have a point. Not enough to sway me though so I’ll stick with Darjina at the projected odds.
Personally I would never back a horse just because their price is bigger.
Darjina is a very good mare. No doubting that. She has got a case of severe seconditis though. I would only back her to place.
New Approach won the Dewhurst, the Phoenix and the National Stakes as a 2yo so is clearly quick so to label him a 12f horse is unfair. To subsequently decry his form further, by using his Derby win to suggest he is poor, I would say is also a little unfair. Today’s was a poor race though and I don’t think New Approach is a great horse. He is definitely a very good G1 horse though. Very much like Darjina.
I still think Henry is the best miler in Europe; him or Tamayuz. I hope they line up in the QEII.
Personally I would never back a horse just because their price is bigger.
Neither would I.
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