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I’ve seen every Arc De Triomphe since 1979 and I actually picked Three Troikas purely based on the name that year and my Father sat opened-mouthed after telling me it was 33/1 and that fillies don’t win the Arc.
Sounds like Detroit, Akiyda, Gold River and All Along also didn’t take kindly to his comment! What did he say to that? 🙂
I think we’ll know a bit more about Order of St George once the Melbourne Cup weights come out on the 13th. I personally can’t see him running in the Arc, even though he’d most likely be top weight in the Melbourne Cup.
The betting boards for the Arc are a disgrace. The number of horses they have quoted that are either simply not going to run, or are not good enough is staggering.
Some of the names in there are utterly astonishing and it’s a wonder Frankel and Shergar are not quoted. Stan James are the worst offenders here by quite a way.
I feel it will be quite a small field this year and not many look to have strong chances of winning.
The number of crocked horses who won’t be running is an utter disgrace though.
Stan James should be ashamed of themselves, particularly for having The Gurkha in their betting at 20/1. FFS get a grip.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
The number of crocked horses who won’t be running is an utter disgrace though.
Stan James should be ashamed of themselves, particularly for having The Gurkha in their betting at 20/1. FFS get a grip.
Cynical exploitation of mug punters, nothing more nothing less.
I’d wager he will retire officially a superior stayer than Westerner given chance.
Whilst it’s perfectly possible that we have yet to see the best of Order Of St George, and that he’s almost certainly capable of a higher rating (especially if taking on a higher calibre of opposition), I’ll be astonished if he ever surpasses Westerner’s Timeform rating.
Order Of St George hasn’t got much improvement to find to be rated higher than Westerner.
I don’t know if Westerner’s Timeform Master Rating was ever increased slightly due to ease of victory in any of his stayers races. However, Westerner’s Timeform Race Performance Ratings give ratings of only up to 124+ for those staying races. Arc performance described by Timeform as “this represents a career-best effort” at 130. So Westerner only produced his 130 Timeform rating once given the chance to race against top class middle-distance animals. It could easily be the same for the as yet unexposed Order Of St George. Only Hurricane Run finished in front of Westerner and followed home by subsequent Arc winner Bago 3rd, Coronation Cup winner Shirroco 4th and Derby winner Motivator 5th. Apart from Postponed I don’t think this year’s race is anywhere near as competitive. Order Of St George imo shows at least as much (if not more) pace over staying trips AND Timeform rate him higher than Westerner at the same stage (going in to the Arc).
Value Is EverythingSo Westerner only produced his 130 Timeform rating once given the chance to race against top class middle-distance animals. It could easily be the same for the as yet unexposed Order Of St George.
Oh, I agree completely with that and have already said as much. Where my opinion differs is that I don’t believe that Order Of St George possesses as much pace as Westerner- they all look fast running past trees, as the old saying goes- and he’ll have to win the Arc by four or five lengths to surpass Westerner’s 130 rating.
Only time will tell.
So Westerner only produced his 130 Timeform rating once given the chance to race against top class middle-distance animals. It could easily be the same for the as yet unexposed Order Of St George.
Oh, I agree completely with that and have already said as much. Where my opinion differs is that I don’t believe that Order Of St George possesses as much pace as Westerner- they all look fast running past trees, as the old saying goes- and he’ll have to win the Arc by four or five lengths to surpass Westerner’s 130 rating.
Only time will tell.
He would perhaps “see where he went” then after all!
So Westerner only produced his 130 Timeform rating once given the chance to race against top class middle-distance animals. It could easily be the same for the as yet unexposed Order Of St George.
Oh, I agree completely with that and have already said as much. Where my opinion differs is that I don’t believe that Order Of St George possesses as much pace as Westerner- they all look fast running past trees, as the old saying goes- and he’ll have to win the Arc by four or five lengths to surpass Westerner’s 130 rating.
Only time will tell.
Order Of St George is 129 now.
Value Is EverythingOrder Of St George is 129 now.
Bear in mind that Timeform’s ratings are usually adjusted downwards before the definitive, end of season, figure is published.
😉
Sweet Jesus, Foundation is still in the Arc betting at as little as 33/1 and is quoted right across the boards.
This punters group should be tackling these scumbags about this nonsense.
Harzand was pushed out to 10/1 for the Arc but I am beginning to warm to the notion that Order Of St George may be the faster horse, and that’s not a wind up.
I can’t see Minding as an Arc filly now. They have titted about with her placing this season and I felt today that she showed signs of too many races and too many variations in trip. A big outfit like Ballydoyle should have a clear path laid out for the season but they seem to have been hanging a piece of wet seaweed out and waiting to see where to put Minding based on that.
US Army Ranger just looks too slow, he can’t win group 3 races and has pretty much lived on reputation. His biggest win is scrambling home in the Chester Vase in a more or less staged gallop.
Almanzor is too short now in my opinion, Fav with Ladbrokes at 3/1 is skinny.
Stan James continue to be an utter disgrace with their market on this race. Instead of waffling their pish, Channel 4 should be exposing these bandits for what they are. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Red Rum and Arkle in their betting before long.
Stan or James? Which one is the bigger tosser?
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Aren’t geldings still banned from running in the Arc?
If so, anyone backing Foundation after the op’ should get their money back on the grounds of not having any chance of winning when the bet was struck… And certainly shouldn’t be quoted in the betting now!Value Is EverythingFound-ation may be a no-no. But Found on the other hand should be backed @ 13/1.
Value Is EverythingFound received 3lb from Postponed in the Coronation Cup and an easy 4.5 length beating. I don’t know what would change in the Arc off level weights. For me, Found’s performance yesterday strengthens Postponed’s position as favorite.
Found-ation may be a no-no. But Found on the other hand should be backed @ 13/1.
Found has had so many opportunities at the top level. Seems a tough, talented and highly consistent animal – everything you’d want in a racehorse except the uncanny ability of finding one too good too often: 2nd in 10 of 18 starts. Wouldn’t be at all surprised to see her add to her collection of runner-up spots at Chantilly.
What price Order of St George now..?
I’ve not seen the race yet, any excuses.?Blackbeard to conquer the World
Found received 3lb from Postponed in the Coronation Cup and an easy 4.5 length beating. I don’t know what would change in the Arc off level weights. For me, Found’s performance yesterday strengthens Postponed’s position as favorite.
3 lbs is the same weight for sex allowance fillies get everywhere in Europe in Group 1’s.
I’d agree that Postponed is the best horse in the race (Arc) and deserves to be favourite (best chance of winning) Andy. But Postponed is a best priced 9/2 and Found is 13/1.Just don’t think the distance beaten in the Coronation Cup gives an accurate assessment of the two at their bests. For one thing, she struggled to beat pacemaker Rorseburg by only 1 1/4 lengths. Found did not run to form and there are possible reasons for this… Although initial pace was a good one it slowed markedly; favouring those ridden prominently (Roseburg and to an extent Postponed) and to the detriment of hold up horses (including Found)…
…And if you take a look at last year’s form it is similar to this. Performances nowhere near her best early and only reaching absolute best in the Autumn. Time of year is often important, especially to fillies.
Value Is EverythingWhat price Order of St George now..?
I’ve not seen the race yet, any excuses.?He isn’t going to run so you can basically name your price.
It just wasn’t the same horse who romped home last year. He wouldn’t have won at any trip. To my eyes he never looked like picking up the leader.
As far as I can remember that is only the second time Moore has ridden him. He got into a complete mess in the Gold Cup and lost today.
Presumably, something will come to light but it is back to the drawing board.
I haven’t heard any post mortems from connections.
All this chat about the Arc but I don’t expect his hardest critic would have foreseen today’s defeat.
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