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Gutted Sariska won’t run, she would have done so well. My 2 ante post wagers in this were dar re mi and sariska, how’s that for tipping?
That’s unlucky
Them two and Harbinger would’ve made it a much better race. It’s a shame really.
The Derby form is cronic. If Workforce runs to his best he probably battles Youmzain for fourth.
Well he beat Jan Vermeer far more further than Behkabad did, quite clearly he wasnt at his best at Ascot, not very often the Derby track record gets smashed like Workforce did on groud that wasnt even firm.
What horse has gone on to great things that Behkabad has ever beat? Goldwaki was stuffed last time out.
Recent horses that have won the Arc, the opposition they beat won G1’s Behkabad and Workforce also, the opposition have done very very little since. So maybe Fame And Glory isnt that bad a choice to win the Arc after all.
And don’t get me started on the abysmal record of Dante runners…
Zarkava you had Cape Blanco written off as a stable lesser light from the moment he was entered in the Dante. Try and assess individuals on their own merit rather than on some historical statistical basis. Your namesake had to overcome a lot of the history you often cite.
It was a tongue-in-cheek comment made about a Derby trial, let alone an Arc trial…jesus wept. I doubt even 5 horses from the Dante ran in the Arc last decade.
Well there we go. Superiority confirmed. Behkabad is
the
outstanding French 3-year-old this year and he’ll win the Arc. Sarafina was the only other Arc hope left on my original entry list released in May and she was eliminated due to not winning the Vermeille. Behkabad is the only 3yo on the trends that can win the race and I expect him to. The race suited Planteur down to the ground today and Behks still beat him. Goldenhooves will have a couple of pacemakers in 3 weeks time and he’ll beat Planteur by a couple of lengths. That should be the forecast.
Re: Fame and Glory. Placed Arc runners have a habit of being placed again the next year (Pilsudski, Youmzain, High Chaparral). Bago finished 3rd after winning it the year before, but I’d be interested to see how many unplaced Arc runners managed to even get placed the following year. I can’t see any trends that eliminate him but the record of Coronation Cup runners is far from great and only Sakhee and Lammtarra were able to win the Arc after having the whole of September off. He’ll go into the race as a strong trends pick alongside Behkabad, but with absolute preference for the French 3-year-old.
Zarkava, i like to see someone stand their ground when they base their judgement on strong ideals! You are as keen on
Bekhabad
as i am on
Workforce
! Good luck,i hope both turn up fit and well on the day!
It will probably be a blanket finish for the Arc, but I would think Fame And Glory is a far harder horse to pass than Planteur the form of other horses around Behkabad and Planteur has been not great, neither has Workforce but he did destroy Jan Vermeer and Rewilding in far more devastating fashion than Behkabad and Planteur ever did, Workforce has had his problems but surely on top form, Workforce is by far a better horse.
If we managed to get fast ground then Cape Blanco would have to be a player but that would be unlikely.
Early season 3 year old form means diddly squat. The Great Gatsby beat Alamshar ffs. At First Sight beat Rewilding. Best Alibi beat Sixties Icon. Gan Amhras beat Rip Van Winkle. Stubbs Art beat Raven’s Pass. Olympian Odyssey beat Araafa. Kandidate beat Dubawi.
And like I said a couple of days ago, look at the form of Rail Link’s Grand Prix de Paris. Next time out, runner-up Red Rocks was beaten a head by Youmzain in the Great Voltigeur and the 3rd, Sudan, finished 6th of 6 in a 10 furlong Group 2. When the French horses are improving as much as they are from run to run, the form of the horses behind them means as much as a Party manifesto.
Jesus you get wound up Zarakava, you need to relax mate. I do agree with you, and I think you tipped up Bekhabad up some time ago, he certainly did not look fully wound up today, I think on Arc day he will be a hell of a lot better than today, he is a worthy favourite, and I think he will win the Arc.
JohnJ
As ever, the French stars were not wound up for Sunday’s meeting, and they can be expected to conspicuously tighten up and sharpen up for the big target on Oct 3. "Your eye would tell you, he has been extremely well fed," said the Aga Khan of Behkabad, who is one of the famous owner-breeder’s most promising discoveries of late.
Now for the big one
- Total Posts 17716
I was wrong. Can’t see Planteur beating Behkabad now. Didn’t think he got a great run the first race and then had to stop a bit to avoid bumping behkabad but no complaints today.
Not backed either of them anyway. Backed Workforce.
Interesting that John Gosden is very keen on putting Duncan in the race. The same Duncan that was beaten and out battled by Barshiba earlier this year. His yeards in hot form so who knows? And with the field anything can happen.
Off topic, I wouldn’t oppose his debussy if it ran in the Breeders Classic, it loves the sharp tracks.
I bet your one of those who never thought Raven’s Pass would beat Henry….. If Planteur is ridden like that in the Arc I’d agree with you but he’s a turn of foot horse who will be held up. Today’s race was just a nice workout.
The only time Planteur beat Behkabad home was in the French Derby and Planteur was handy enough there. Both of these horses are versatile, Behkabad won earlier in the year leading all the way and showed a great burst of speed held up in the French Derby.
Planteur is a smart horse but everything we have seen suggests that Behkabad is the superior animal. Even in the 2100m Prix du Jockey Club Behkabad finished faster than everything, and this is after going back from a poor draw, swinging very wide in the straight (remember, 22 horse field) and receiving a costly bump. Of course Behk can still lose to Planteur, thats racing, but Behk looks a better horse.
As for people taking the Derby form literally to prove that Workforce is better than Behk… would this mean that At First Sight would have run a nice 3rd to Behk and Planteur in the Grand Prix de Paris? I could also show that At First Sight should have beaten Jan Vermeer in the Irish Derby and perhaps even Cape Blanco as well, since he beat them by more at Epsom than Cape Blanco did at the Curragh.
Derby form is suspect due to many of the chances not handling the track and other excuses. Surely, At First Sight’s performance gives those excuses grounds for legitimacy. Workforce is still unexposed and the Derby run was still smart, and as such is still a danger to win the Arc, but it’s silly to center your logic around the Derby form.
We’re potentially looking at a rather select Arc field, maybe 10-12 runners.
Behks aka Goldenhooves
Pacemaker???
Planteur
Vivre Libre
Fame and Glory
Dixie Music
Workforce???
Youmzain
Goldwaki???
Duncan
Plumania
Outside chance that the 2 Japanese horses might runThat’d make 13 with question marks over at least 5 of the runners I’d say.
Workforce is still unexposed and the Derby run was still smart, and as such is still a danger to win the Arc, but it’s silly to center your logic around the Derby form.
Can I use his King George run then? Not only how abysmal it was but the fact that he ran in it anyway. Stoute’s record in Paris doesn’t inspire confidence either.
I have Planteur at 14s (plus some 9/2 in the place market) Fame at 13/2 and have covered on Behkabad. Not unduly worried about not collecting.
Writing off Workforce on his KG run would be very foolish, good horses dont win The Derby like he did track record and all by being average, he quite clearly has talent, could have more talent than the two who ran in France yesterday he probably has more improvement than them anyway and surely you could use Rewilding and Jan Vermeer as some sort of form line that shows Workforce to be pretty useful at least..
- Total Posts 17716
How is that sticking your neck out? He was a 16/1 shot when I initially backed him
.
What’s the price you acquired got to do with it Euro? Gee some people are precious about their selections. I have stated my opinion and that is all it is. "Planteur cannot win the Arc". Don’t take it so personally.
Zarkava you are simply boring. Your inability to have any courage in your convictions is obvious. You bagged Cape Blanco early season simple as that. Any "tongue in cheek" type comments now are simply lame after timing. "I was wrong" is the only serious comeback.
This was the original thread!
Betting since first markets on 13th of April!
Two firms have put up betting for the Arc!
Making note of the prices to see how this changes/looks over time…
St Nicholas Abbey 9/2 – 6/1*
Fame And Glory 12/1
Dar Re Mi 14/1 – 16/1*
Jan Vermeer 16/1
Daryakana 25/1
Cavalryman 20/1 – 25/1*
Cutlass Bay 25/1 – 16/1*
Sariska 20/1 – 25/1*
Elusive Pimpernel -33/1*
Timepiece -33/1*
Youmzain 25/1 – 33/1*
You’ll Be Mine – 50/1*Hills & * Stan James prices
Only one serious contender has put its hoof up so far – Workforce. Cannot have F&G or Sariska at any price. We may not have seen the winner on a racecourse yet this season. Wide open contest right now.
Just out of interest!…who did you have in mind & do you still feel the same about the race & F&G?!
Zarkava you are simply boring. Your inability to have any courage in your convictions is obvious. You bagged Cape Blanco early season simple as that. Any "tongue in cheek" type comments now are simply lame after timing. "I was wrong" is the only serious comeback.
I was completely correct to ‘bag’ Cape Blanco early in the season. He’s done absolutely nothing to prove me wrong. Winning the Irish Derby against a St. Leger 2nd proved nothing and getting a soft lead in the Irish Champion and galloping them into submission only proved he stays the trip well.
P.s. That is also called a tongue-in-cheek comment. How on earth can I possibly say I was correct to write him off? He’s won 2 Group 1s against decent opposition – his last victory was the most impressive performance I’ve seen all season in my opinion.
I suspect, however, you’re the only one who didn’t understand my Dante comment was tongue-in-cheek. Like I said, it’s a Derby trial, not an Arc trial, and I doubt even 5 Dante runners ran in the Arc last decade. You see, the comment was made because I was alluding to the old cliche that trends people like myself spout; ‘Oh runners from that race have an awful record in this race’.
There was a discussion about which races were bogey races for Arc contenders and we established that 2 of them were the King George and the St. Leger. I then made, what some people might call, a humourous comment, which obviously you didn’t get. That’s fine. I’m just amazed you’re so obtuse as to think I meant the comment in earnest.
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