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GHAIYYATH ran like a horse who has a virus
went out like a light.
GHAIYYATH bounced. He was a classic candidate for it as I said after his German victory.
When early pace has been overly strong any jockey would want to be further back in the field. Otherwise the horse will pay for it/weaken in the closing stages.
When early pace has been overly strong the right thing for a jockey to do is to challenge much later than usual. Right thing to do would’ve been to let the leaders go.
Frankie misjudged the pace and urged her forward to get a worse position.
Value Is EverythingYou were right, Joe. But I think the pace Buick went had something to do with it too.
Value Is EverythingMaybe not the setting of records we hoped for but the ” sire of sires” son beat the grand daughter, who beat the grandson, who beat the son which beat the daughter of Galileo.
Is it reasonable of me to rank Enable’s performance on Sunday up there with her best or have I completely lost the plot?
Yes she was beaten but this is very understandable if one accepts the premise that Waldgeist was the beneficiary of absolutely perfect conditions (trip, pace, ground, training, maturity and a flawless ride) and excelled himself with a once in a lifetime effort in much the same vein as Hawk Wing and Harbinger. If this assertion is correct then it is very much to Enable’s credit that she finished so close to a freak performance – particularly if the tactics and ground weren’t entirely in Enable’s favour.
If you take Waldgeist out of the race, Enable performance would have outranked her previous Arc wins. In 2017, Cloth of Stars was winless in nine starts following his narrow win in a Ganay, Ulysses was better over shorter, Order of St George was a stayer, Brametot won his classics by the skin of his teeth before a dire prep, the German horses were average as was Idaho, Winter was an over the top non-stayer and the next three were still within nine lengths after a truly run race. Enable almost lost the 2018 renewal despite having first run with the first nine covered by less than five lengths. Conversely, in yesterday’s renewal, she beat the best unexposed middle distance candidates from the classic generation. Both of who ran creditably in their classics, both of whom subsequently improved, both arrived in top form, both expected to be suited by conditions and both ridden to best effect. Furthermore, a strict line through Japan and Crystal Ocean puts Enable’s Longchamp run ahead of the Ascot effort. While the York form looked messy, Japan and Crystal Ocean followed similar tactics and had a fair battle between themselves. Afterwards, it was a yawning six lengths back the consistent Magical who had previously never finished further behind Enable, then it’s nearly three and a half lengths back to the supplemented Soft Light. The front four were the best possibly options to fill those positions and the rest were satisfactorily put in their places.
Looking at her other major wins;-
Yorkshire Oaks – she beat Magical (again)
King George 2019 – despite ideal conditions was all out (running at full stride and running a slower final furlong than the second and third while constantly being shown the whip) to beat Crystal Ocean (one win from six at the top level) and Waldgeist (fully expected to improve on the effort by connections).
Eclipse – she beat Magical.
Breeders’ Cup Turf – she beat Magical.
September Stakes – Comprehensively beats a race fit and bang in-form Crystal Ocean.
Yorkshire Oaks – beats Coronet, herself previously beaten by further in the Epsom and Curragh equivalents.
King George 2017 – with ideal conditions beats Ulysses who was better over shorter and almost caught by Idaho. Next was a below par Highland Reel.
Irish Oaks – outclasses opponents in the manner expected of a 2/5 shot.
Epsom Oaks – beats a miler.
Cheshire Oaks – a listed race.Even if I am being somewhat facetious and dismissive in this summary, it is still easy to crab or pick holes in the form of her other wins which is more difficult to do with Sunday’s race. While one could not categorically declare that Sunday’s effort was her best (and I appear to be alone in even considering it a possibility), I can not convince myself of three other efforts which are definitely superior.
Crowd was immense pre-race and the silence with half a furlong to go was deafening.
She either hasn’t run to form or Waldgeist has stepped up massively from the KG to Sunday. Personally i think he’s improved slightly but mainly has benefited from a better timed run round from a length or two behind her all the way round. Frankie went slightly too soon and a long season told in the last furlong.
Don’t take nothing away from Waldgeist, he won well in the end and beat the right horses home. He was definitely the best horse on the day.
Coolmore ruthlessly sacrifing Magical for Japans benefit surprised me TBH but once again emphasises the business they run is all about making stallions.
Ghaiyyath went too hard from the front and is probably one that likes to get his own way against trees but we will see if it’s that or freshness he requires next season.
All in all a very interesting race but unfortunately not the historic result most of us wanted.
Coolmore ruthlessly sacrifing Magical for Japans benefit surprised me TBH
I am not convinced this was the intention. Fierement and the fancied Ghaiyyath were doing a good enough job setting a strong pace. Also, if Coolmore wanted to specifically use a pacemaker, they have dozens of listed class/teaser/dispersal colts at their disposal which would make much more sense than an in-form mare with genuine pretensions to running into a place. It was most likely an ill judged ride then something as ridiculous as using Magical as a pacemaker.
The thing with a pacemaker of Magical’s class is that you have to keep an eye on her and not just let the horse go off like you would with a Hunting Horn as there’s a chance she might not come back.
That then gives Frankie the lure to stay closer to the pace thus disadvantaging her and increasing Japan’s chance. The ground was probably a little slower than Japan would prefer (Ground was no worse than Soft IMO) and probably isn’t quite a 130ish performer.
Is it reasonable of me to rank Enable’s performance on Sunday up there with her best or have I completely lost the plot?
It’s a “reasonable” opinion, BH. Enable may have an exceptionally consistent winning record, but her first Arc (at Chantilly) is on ratings a standout performance. It is possible that particular race has been over-rated. Also, Enable wasn’t seen on a racecourse for over ten months so possible just not capable of that level of rating performance afterwards. Take the 2017 Arc out of her stats and every other European Group 1 can be rated within around three lengths of each other. That’s bloody consistent!… And Sunday’s Arc is in no way the worst of those. Interesting Enable’s runner-up Timeform’s performance rating is the same as her Eclipse and 2018 Arc. However, it’s also no surprise a horse is a little behind her very best 2018/19 considering the fractions she was asked to put in at Longchamp.
As you say BH, it’s fair to believe conditions – course, going/strong pace (stamina test) rider went ideal (equal) fractions and challenging wide – combined… all enabled Waldgeist to produce a once in a lifetime performance (better than his Ascot and Arc placed efforts). Personally doubt it’s actally quite worth a rating better than Enable’s 2018/19 best, but is only a matter of opinion. I just think had Frankie got his own fractions spot on Enable would’ve won in a tight finish.
Value Is EverythingSR has a good bit up about the sectionals…. and good to see him agree with some on here about the going…
Behind the first six, the closing sectionals are pedestrian, even after allowing for ground that was probably between “good to soft” and “soft” judged on wider times.
it seems you pick and choose when a trainer speaks the truth Potato!?!? Gosden is gospel on the ground etc but Appleby is lying about his own horse.. by the way the sectionals all prove his horse did far too much too soon but still…
Ginger why dont you post in your own id rather than the bizzare Igor Biscam you use to talk to yourself or back yourself up.
“Andre Fabre had just won the arc there was no reason for him to lie about the ground.
You could make a case for Gosden wanting to lie in some kind of denial that his horse simply got beat by a better one.
As for Appleby he is not going to come out and publically say he has a virus- FACT
Trainers talk all sorts of rubbish to the media but Fabre and many other winning trainers jockeys had no reason to lie.
Absolutely I pick and choose when I think a trainer is telling the truth and when they are lieing. They all do both.”
Fact is i believe in facts and maths more than people, they don’t lie.
Basically everybody that disagrees with Potato is in fact GT with a different ID…. haha I’ve heard it all now Potato!
Oh wait… Am I GT?
This is like the ending of some blockbuster movie when the twist comes. Everyone on the forum is actually the same person! No way! Potato is GT!
Lol
And I joined the forum because I thought it was the home of intelligent horse racing
Don’t let Spud wind you up, Igor. That’s what he (and it is probably a he) wants.
“Gingertipster” is the only name I have ever used on this and any other British racing forum.
Having won a competition and had a book sent to me a few years ago, the owner of this site should already have my address. So it shouldn’t be too difficult to sort this out. I’ve also met several TRFers at Newbury, Salisbury, Goodwood and Wincanton. Or if wanting a neutral, maybe we can ask Jockeys Association Chief executive Paul Struthers to verify my identity/whereabouts. LOLKeep to discussing horses.
Value Is EverythingThought I’d heard the last of that one at school thirtysomething years ago, Green’. LOL
Value Is EverythingBack to the race:
There was no reason for Fabre to lie after Waldgeist’s great Arc success. But he is a trainer and probably has not compared race times. Trainers, jockeys, presenters and journalists (and punters
) – that have not looked at and/or understand the comparisson of race times – may come to the wrong conclusion about ground conditions.Value Is Everything
) – that have not looked at and/or understand the comparisson of race times – may come to the wrong conclusion about ground conditions.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.