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No reet hard it is not being defensive,it is putting things into perspective.Some horses do not fire with a 4 day back up after coming from the other side of the world a week or 2 earlier.As for the July Cup Australia has had about 9 starters for a couple of place getters,and horses like Falkirk and Mutawaajid were never going to be up to it.Horses like Starspangled Banner,Haradasun,Starcraft aquitted themselves quite well. Though they were not trained in Australia at the time,but neither is SYT.But a long settling in period is very benificial.So we myopic xenophobes can tell you that you are looking at about 7 hours to singapore maybe 6 or 7 hours on the tarmac there, then another 13 hours on the plane to England.Not a quaint little jaunt across to America or Europe.It can be difficult travelling that distance and i have travelled horses quite a bit,some are fine others the trip takes a lot out of.
I don’t buy into Aidan’s post race comments that So You Think was less than 100% fit. That was the comment of a trainer who was still in shock at seeing his "superstar" beaten on the line by Coolmore’s arch rival. In fact, there was point in the post race interview with Mr Smiley ( Rishi Persad ) when Aidan was just talking gibberish.
Put simply, So You Think’s defeat was all due to tactics. Yes, Rewilding stayed on well under Dettori’s urgings poor, but run the race again and I’m utterly convinced that So You Think would emerge victorious.
In saying that – and as I alluded to when commenting on the potential Pour Moi vs So You Think/Workforce clash – the ex Aussie trained horse may not be the force of nature his wily little trainer, or Old uncle Bart thinks he is.
Although Moore did set sail for home early, he still should have ( at the distance ) had enough in his locker to see Rewilding off – and it is more than likely that he would have done so had he been held up that little bit longer.
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I don’t buy into a single thing Aiden O’Brien ever says we’ve heard it all before many, many times.
So You Think had two starts prior to Ascot so the fitness thing isn’t an issue. However much work you do at home there is no substitute for race fitness and So You Think wasn’t lacking.
Tactics – Yes they ballsed it up. Why they needed a pacemaker anyway I’m not particularly certain. A slower gallop might have suited So You Think and he may have won the race but lets not forget Rewilding is a stayer and So You Think really should’ve been able to beat him over ten furlongs no matter what the gallop.
The big reason nobody goes down to Australia for the sprints is the quarantine laws. England has prestige (and weaker sprinters), and there’s far more prizemoney in Dubai and Hong Kong without the quarantine hassles.
The "world championship" Flemington sprints are often won by unspectacular sprinters. Apache Cat was beaten by second-rate Hong Kong sprinters, Nicconi is no star, All Silent beaten by second-raters like Joy and Fun twice, etc. Of course there are stars like Miss Andretti, Scenic Blast, and Takeover Target, but for the past 5+ years (pre-Black Caviar), the top rated sprinter has come out of the Hong Kong races. In HK, Dubai, and Singapore, the Aussies haven’t been able to measure up despite doing well against the poor sprinters in England.
How can you conclude that Planteur is a "top 2 or 3 Euro galloper" AND that he ran to form when he was beaten by Sri Putra, 6 lengths adrift of Rewilding?
Bungarra, do you have some formlines to back up your conjectures? You claimed SYT would win in a canter and were wrong, and now you’re saying that AUS has the best milers in the world with absolutely nothing to back it up. I understand that Aussies are famously bullish about their horses, thankfully their trainers and jockeys are more realistic.
Marbine, thank you for keeping a level head and your reasonable comments.
I’m not sure about Aidan’s post race comments. I guess I can see him buying into the hype himself, so he believed SYT was that good and didn’t have him fully tuned… he does usually bring horses along slowly. He could’ve been awestruck by the horse and those first two wins over G3 horses. It’s too early to say that he won’t stay 12f or isn’t a superstar yet, for me. Just think, if he didn’t pull he would have scraped in, let alone all the other things that went wrong.
Rewilding is severely underrated. Redwood has a good turn of foot and Rewilding blew him away in Dubai, but the other horses had rough form so I assumed Redwood was flat. But I guess Rewilding is just that good.
I don’t think he necessarily improved. His "fresh" requirement gives valid excuses for most of his bad races. He didn’t handle Epsom and blocked in the Derby, but still closed off as fast as ridden-out Workforce when he did let down. There might not be much between him and 3yo Workforce at their bests. Workforce had the ideal ground, run, everything in the Arc and barely beat Nakayama Festa and Sarafina.Aidan O’Brien.
"But we haven’t stepped up his work because we feel he is doing it comfortably and doing it within himself. We are very happy with how he is going at the moment.
"As I said, we haven’t done that much with him in training because we feel he is such a natural horse.
"We are just hoping we have done enough with him for Royal Ascot. I’m confident we have."
Before the race talking to an aussie paper. Perhaps worth taking into consideration, perhaps not. Just thought i’d point it out.
Here’s the link btw,
I was impressed with the burst 3 out which seemed to have everything beaten. I am of the opinion SYT didn’t settle and wasn’t particularly suited by the way the race was ran. AOB’s comments were perhaps PR, but perhaps not. Substitute Ryan Moore for Tom Queally and i think we have bit of a jockeys witch hunt on our hands. Just proves how unfair that business can be, as Moore had little choice but to take it up really.
All in all i was impressed, and wouldn’t hesitate in backing the horse next time he runs over 10f or 12f in any Group 1. Could be some nice value to be had if reading opinions on here are anything to go by.
Opinions, opinions.
Aidan O’Brien.
"But we haven’t stepped up his work because we feel he is doing it comfortably and doing it within himself. We are very happy with how he is going at the moment.
"As I said, we haven’t done that much with him in training because we feel he is such a natural horse.
"We are just hoping we have done enough with him for Royal Ascot. I’m confident we have."
Before the race talking to an aussie paper. Perhaps worth taking into consideration, perhaps not. Just thought i’d point it out.
Here’s the link btw,
That can’t possibly be from Aiden O’Brien, all that text and not one "Listen".
Well it is a Murdoch paper, so could be all crap
But in all seriousness, it’s him lol.
I remember thinking at the time it seemed odd, but since I already had my moneys on I wasn in a rather dismissive mood
And just on the race, I do think SYT over raced a bit early on and also ryan moore perhaps went early. And if Aiden O’brien is, god forbid, been honest about the fitness then i’m willing to say he has enough excuses.
I think ‘absolutely’ is fast becoming another ‘listen’.
"Absolutely Rishi. Listen, all those races are absolutely open to him. He’s got so much natural speed, pace, class and speed."
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Presto
:):) your comment before the race was that Planteur was probably the best 10f horse on the planet besides maybe SYT!!!!!!!!!!!!! You said that it was obvious Planteur could quicken better then SYT!!!!!!!! Then you come back having a go at someone and basically say ‘who said Planteur was one of Europes best’
Nice shooting of ones own foot there! Dont make statements then twist it when you are wrong! Oh and i never said SYT would ‘canter’ in, i said he has met better horses in OZ then Planteur and you can line up the form with ‘the ever widening margin’!!!The big reason nobody goes down to Australia for the sprints is the quarantine laws. England has prestige (and weaker sprinters), and there’s far more prizemoney in Dubai and Hong Kong without the quarantine hassles.
The "world championship" Flemington sprints are often won by unspectacular sprinters. Apache Cat was beaten by second-rate Hong Kong sprinters, Nicconi is no star, All Silent beaten by second-raters like Joy and Fun twice, etc. Of course there are stars like Miss Andretti, Scenic Blast, and Takeover Target, but for the past 5+ years (pre-Black Caviar), the top rated sprinter has come out of the Hong Kong races. In HK, Dubai, and Singapore, the Aussies haven’t been able to measure up despite doing well against the poor sprinters in England.
All Silent didn’t fire a shot in HK and has been 20 lengths below his best ever since. I got no idea what happened on that trip but it killed the great sprinter in him. Nicconi was devastating on his day, but yes needed things to suit to show his best (like rewilding?) Apache Cat was a better sprinter than Starspangledbanner and Scenic Blast. In fact Starspangledbanner was only barely in the top 5 sprinters in Australia when he came to England and cleaned up.
‘Prestige’ is basically horseshit, take away the royal family and the 300year history and none of the internationals would even bother turning up.
Your ratings are absolute crap and have always been horrendously slanted against Aussie horses. So you think rated best stayer in the world? He’s not a stayer! You probably wouldn’t even know who horses like spinning hill, gold edition, fastnet rock, testa rossa or even the great Lohnro are.
Go on tell me how good Lohnro was. Up with Starcraft do you think?
Exceed and Excel was one of the very best sprinters they took over to England – but he finished last! So on that I’m sure you’d say he wasn’t up to it either? Rubbish he wasn’t! At his best he wins in devastating fashion and is rated higher than horses like Choisir Scenic Blast or Starspangledbanner.
And on Scenic Blast, that was another Elvstroem situation all over again. Should’ve been spelled and sent to the paddock as soon as he went off the boil, but they continue to run him everywhere flattened and you never get your horse back ever again.
I just think you blokes have zero clue about Aussie racing. We go over there to chase being a shuttle stallion, if we don’t do it you wouldn’t know who our horses were or how great they are. You walk around with your heads jammed firmly up your own arses thinking your ratings are everything, but they’re not. They’re not even remotely accurate. But right or wrong, they are relevent. So to make the big bucks as a shuttle stallion we have to play the game. It’s a good thing our horses have superior speed and ability, because the travel takes lengths off them! Bring Equiano over to Flemington and see how hard he gets his arse spanked! It’s got nothing to do with quarantine laws they don’t do it because getting shown up would hurt their stallion careers.
So there is an opposing point of view, minus the pompous British bullshit.
I guess england didnt play their full squad at upton park when we beat your mob 3-1?? How quickly we forget at half time it was 2-0 against your full strength outfit.
Only the British send their prisoners to paradise. You stole a loaf of bread I sentence you to life in Australia. Ha ha no worries ol blighty where do I sign!!
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Also cant believe some people are saying that SYT was beaten by an out an out stayer.Open your eyes people! It was a very fast run race in course record time and Rewilding was 3 lenghts off the lead from the 3f mark!!!!!
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AIC,
If you have a look in the daily lays and plays column you will see where ‘Kingfisher’ said that he didn’t like So You Think as soon as he saw him,he said he looked like a ‘cart horse’! and is a one pacer who will never win a big one in Europe! You do get twits like that though on here at times,never mind they broke the track record! What does that say for all the other ‘cart horses’ of previous years?AIC,
If you have a look in the daily lays and plays column you will see where ‘Kingfisher’ said that he didn’t like So You Think as soon as he saw him,he said he looked like a ‘cart horse’! and is a one pacer who will never win a big one in Europe! You do get twits like that though on here at times,never mind they broke the track record! What does that say for all the other ‘cart horses’ of previous years?Their ignorance would be hilarious if it didn’t have such an impact on the world’s breeding scene.
There are similar ignorant clowns in Australia around cups time, I actually backed All The Good at 80-1 before his cup win. And then again on the day at 50-1 and 40-1. If you can take off the blinkers there is money to be made and fun to be had in both directions.
I’m sure they think Northerly or Might and Power were also hacks that couldn’t have done squat in Europe. Ha ha it’s quite funny really isn’t it.
Also cant believe some people are saying that SYT was beaten by an out an out stayer.Open your eyes people! It was a very fast run race
in course record time
and Rewilding was 3 lenghts off the lead from the 3f mark!!!!!
It was a very fast race, but the Racing Post has it exactly 1.00 second slower than Perfect Stride’s course record from 2009. Have they got it wrong, is there another source that disagrees?
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I did read in a couple of places that it was a course record,though maybe they were wrong? Being that the track wasn’t really conducive to an ultra quick time 1 second outside seems more likely.
Rewilding outstayed So You Think. Simple as that.
Even as a 2 year old, when trained by Andre Fabre before heading to Godolphin, his 2 races were at 8 and nine furlongs. Royal Ascot was the first time the colt had competed in a ten furlong race – So You Think’s favoured distance !
I’m not going to get into the whole European v Australia/New Zealand debate – suffice to say that Phar Lap aside, very few Australian middle distance trained thoroughbreds throughout the last five decades or so (that I know of ) can be mentioned in the same breath ( let alone compared ) to the likes of Ribot, Sea-Bird, Mill Reef, Nijinsky, Vaguley Noble, Brigadier Gerard, Allez France, Dahlia, Shergar, El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave, Zarkava, Sea The Stars, or indeed, Frankel… to name but a few.
Yes, and I include the likes of Kingstown Town, Sunline, Might and Power, Makybe Diva or So You Think. For all their antipodean heroics, I cannot put forward one who would have even troubled any of the European above.
So You Think is good horse; of that there is little doubt – but he still has to prove that he can cut it among Europe’s best.
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