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Look Here wants further than ten furlongs. Great ride from Jimmy Fortune. Better run from Lush Lashes who was given a shocking ride at Ascot.
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Seb Sanders?…..
I’d love to here what you lot have to say about how he should have ridden her.
He was the first to come of the bridle, she couldn’t pick up on the ground and he gave her a great ride to finish where he did.
Maybe you think he should have made the running on a hold up horse. He started rowing away from 3 1/2 furlongs out the second the winner kicked and she was all at sea.
He had her lovely and relaxed before that and only a few lengths behind.
Plus the winner did run Zarkava to 2 lengths and was just beaten by a Group filly who has won 6 on the trot so she’s no slouch.Obviously that isn’t her ground and she needs further although had the ground been good she would probably have won. The ground beat her IMO nothing Seb Sanders did.
I’d love to here what you lot have to say about how he should have ridden her.
I presume ‘you’ means everybody bar myself but just to emphasise three lengths closer to a moderate pace. The winner herself is no speed machine – only difference being Fortune put his filly in a position to win the race.
Couldn’t keep her straight, came right across the track twice to find a way through, kept her way off the pace in a slowly run affair. ‘Twas truly shocking, as were 95% of jockeys today.
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Geezuz Stivi she was no more than 4 lengths behind the leader during the race but when she could’t quicken she lost a length or so. So what your saying is a horse who is normally held up and won the Oaks that way should have been virtually disputing the lead?
The fact is they had no idea how she would go on the ground prior to the race and as it turned out it went against her.
As far as 95% of jockeys being crap and her being way off the pace Zarkava ..I think you should both invest in a TV or get high speed cable so you can watch the races……..bloody sure you weren’t watching the same race as I was.
95% of Jockeys were rubbish today? I’m going to bed…… now you are just being rediculous
From what I saw, I might as well have been watching racing from Longchamp or ‘Try to ride like Frankie Dettori day’. I saw Knot In Wood set a slow pace and stay there. I then saw Som Tala set a slow pace and stay there. I then saw Dar Re Mi set a slow pace and stay there.
I make that £28,000 in prize money that’s gone to jockeys setting ridiculously slow gallops and kicking early and £252,000 gone to trainers and owners because of it. I mean we’re talking about a Group 1, a Group 3 and the richest handicap in Europe. Have had enough of watching stuff like this every week. It was a total waste of time for the other 28 horses to have turned up and a total waste of money for the other 28 owners to have paid entry fees. I mean for goodness sakes, what is the difference between what happened today and what happened in the Ormonde Stakes when Murtagh was booed by many on-course punters and given a grilling by pundits?
Shocking.
And no, not pocket talk, only backed Lush Lashes and fully accept she’d have been beaten no matter how the race had been run.
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The ground didn’t go against her at all, Fist – she’s well-actioned, ran a blinder in the St Leger on soft (when she blatantly didn’t stay) and beat Doctor Fremantle on good-to-soft on debut.
Going in to this race the only question mark was whether she had the speed to win over ten furlongs. Seb Sanders arguably gave her too much to do when letting Ask and Youmzain get away from him in the Coronation, so logic should have followed that it would be unwise to sit too far off a sedate pace here. Had Jimmy Fortune gone a decent clip then I’d have had absolutely no qualms about expecting the horse to reel the leaders in, but he didn’t, and Sanders’s tactical ineptitude has undoubtedly cost connections victory.
It was an astonishingly poor ride given how events at Epsom worked out, and if I were Ralph Beckett I’d be absolutely seething.
Perhaps I should just give up, Fist; I clearly can’t read a book, let alone a race
From what I saw, I might as well have been watching racing from Longchamp or ‘Try to ride like Frankie Dettori day’. I saw Knot In Wood set a slow pace and stay there. I then saw Som Tala set a slow pace and stay there. I then saw Dar Re Mi set a slow pace and stay there.
I make that £28,000 in prize money that’s gone to jockeys setting ridiculously slow gallops and kicking early and £252,000 gone to trainers and owners because of it. I mean we’re talking about a Group 1, a Group 3 and the richest handicap in Europe. Have had enough of watching stuff like this every week. It was a total waste of time for the other 28 horses to have turned up and a total waste of money for the other 28 owners to have paid entry fees. I mean for goodness sakes, what is the difference between what happened today and what happened in the Ormonde Stakes when Murtagh was booed by many on-course punters and given a grilling by pundits?
Shocking.
And no, not pocket talk, only backed Lush Lashes and fully accept she’d have been beaten no matter how the race had been run.
Its called tactics Zarkava there is absolutely nothing that says any race has to be run at a decent early gallop. Infact if all races were run the same punters wouldn’t be able to get an edge.
Sanders ride arguably could’ve been better but this is a filly that has always been held up making the running would’ve been a risk not every horse likes it. You mentioned Johnny Murtagh’s Chester ride on Frozen Fire but he made the running on that colt next time out and he fared no better. It isn’t always the answer to change tactics.
I’d argue all day long than 5th/10 in a Group 1 beaten 3 1/2L is infinitely better than 3rd of 3 beaten 11L in a Group 3 run 30 seconds slower than standard. I don’t believe for a second that he enjoyed being back at Epsom, nor do I think he enjoyed going round Tattenham Corner. FWIW I think he’ll win the King George.
But the facts are simple. Look Here was the best horse in the race on form and the horse to take out of the race. Sanders should not have been afraid to make all given her stamina and class.
I also believe that the connections of Look Here should have thought in hindsight. Obviously it’s easy to say this afterwards but;
1) Filly is held up and has to possibly come off a slow pace, maybe difficult for a horse whose success has come at stamina racecourses.
2) Filly tries to make all and is given a genuine chance to win, dictating the terms in which the race is run.
Unfortunately we’ll always get debates about this kind of stuff. If 1) is done, punters can complain as to why 2) wasn’t done, and then if 2) is done and fails, punters will ask why a hold-up horse was asked to make all.
But of course if 2) is done and is successful, he’s the hero.
I wasn’t suggesting Look Here should have made the running, just sat in third, a maximum two lengths off the lead. In a slowly run race on a filly who is unlikely to find instant acceleration there is a huge difference between siiting four lengths off as opposed to two. Basically, the difference between winning and losing.
I’d argue all day long than 5th/10 in a Group 1 beaten 3 1/2L is infinitely better than 3rd of 3 beaten 11L in a Group 3 run 30 seconds slower than standard. I don’t believe for a second that he enjoyed being back at Epsom, nor do I think he enjoyed going round Tattenham Corner. FWIW I think he’ll win the King George.
But the facts are simple. Look Here was the best horse in the race on form and the horse to take out of the race. Sanders should not have been afraid to make all given her stamina and class.
Arguing which run is better is splitting hairs as the horse didn’t achieve anything in either contest. I’d agree that his Epsom run was better but it still didn’t turn him into a winner. The Chester race wasn’t run at a slow early pace there wasn’t any early pace at all it was a walk.
Look Here needs further than ten furlongs she just struggled for pace and twelve furlongs and perhaps even a bit further are what she is crying out for.
Thats my opinion anyway.
Ian, I agree that 10f is too short for her, there’s no doubt about that in my mind.
Stilvi, fwiw I agree with you. Should have given her the ride Manning gave Lush Lashes. I was simply making very extreme examples.
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The ground didn’t go against her at all, Fist – she’s well-actioned, ran a blinder in the St Leger on soft (when she blatantly didn’t stay) and beat Doctor Fremantle on good-to-soft on debut.
Going in to this race the only question mark was whether she had the speed to win over ten furlongs. Seb Sanders arguably gave her too much to do when letting Ask and Youmzain get away from him in the Coronation, so logic should have followed that it would be unwise to sit too far off a sedate pace here. Had Jimmy Fortune gone a decent clip then I’d have had absolutely no qualms about expecting the horse to reel the leaders in, but he didn’t, and Sanders’s tactical ineptitude has undoubtedly cost connections victory.
It was an astonishingly poor ride given how events at Epsom worked out, and if I were Ralph Beckett I’d be absolutely seething.
Perhaps I should just give up, Fist; I clearly can’t read a book, let alone a race
Well mate you certainly can’t read form " copied and pasted from the RP "
Bred to stay and not expected to be inconvenienced by this softer ground, she was a major fancy in many quarters and started to make headway, travelling strongly, under half a mile out. She could not quicken when asked for her effort though, and, despite staying on well enough, was always looking comfortably held
She failed to quicken and the ground? same as today mate. If I was Seb I would be asking Beckett why he ran the horse today
The current 4YO+ F&M crop are fair-to-middling, nothing stands out and they’re trading places in the rankings as a result.
Stacelita and Ghanaati would torch them alive.
I almost had a small dabble on Roman Empress because of this. New kid on the block from Aidan O’Brien got me interested.
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