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Quote: from clivex on 10:31 am on Oct. 17, 2006[br]Agree there
Not sure what a jail sentence would have achieved though and community service probably makes sense
But he remains a total knob
He was lucky in some ways, beacuse on certain flights he might have been taken out by security or by an enterprising ( and one i would applaud) passenger<br>
I like Carberry, find him a nice guy but have to agree that he was very lucky here. If it had happend on an American flight, I dont think many would have been so lenient.
SHL
Read the article carefully, it gets worse. he has succeeded in appealing not alone the sentence but also the conviction so therefore there can be no sentence for an offence he didnt commit. That is why it was not ordered but only suggested that he would give riding lessons to the inner city kids. He is under no legal obligation to undertake this work. It is bizzare how he got the conviction overturned.<br>An Irish solution to an Irish problem.
PS I like Paul Carberry and am glad he is not going to prison.
I think you have misunderstood the court’s decision, bluechariot. The conviction has not been overturned.
The Circuit Court judge has decided it would be appropriate to apply the Probation Act, which is used to let most people off their first offence, the idea being that having gone through the rigours of a legal case they won’t be in a hurry to repeat it. Paul Carberry doesn’t receive a sentence, and he won’t have a criminal record, but that does not mean the conviction has been overturned.
In the eyes of the Circuit Court judge Carberry had indeed committed an offence and if he were convicted by the courts of a subsequent offence it would count against him.
I did misunderstand, I didn’t know you could have a conviction but not have a criminal record. Does this just apply to Ireland as I think a caution in the UK is recordable
Quote: from bluechariot on 7:07 pm on Oct. 17, 2006[br]I did misunderstand, I didn’t know you could have a conviction but not have a criminal record. Does this just apply to Ireland as I think a caution in the UK is recordable
In simple terms, in the UK you can be eligible for a police caution if meeting certain criteria. Basically the offence shouldn’t be too serious, the offender admits it and should be of previously goodish character (i.e. ideally not convicted or cautioned for a like offence). Offender does not go to court and does not get a conviction, but fingerprints etc. are taken, ostensibly as a record that that was the individual cautioned at that time on that date.<br>Being bound over to keep the peace is similar. Offender goes to court but agrees before the court to keep the peace in future, usually in the sum of £x for x months. Does not count as a criminal conviction. If get into trouble again within the relevant time period , the breach is brought to the attention of the court and money likely to be forfeited.<br>In both cases, police clear up the crime/offence and as an incentive to admit it, the offender escapes a criminal conviction. All very neat!<br>Chances of being offered a caution or bind over for something viewed as seriously as endangering the safety of a flight in the current climate are nil. Criminal conviction certain and immediate jail sentence more than likely in the current climate. <br>As has been said, other passengers on US and probably UK flights likely to wade in physically.<br>End of law lesson which I appreciate many will find esoteric and probably boring.<br>Carberry never admitted the offence and the appeal system bent over backwards to accomodate him.As I understand it his conviction stands but voluntary work was substituted for the jail sentence (i.e. appeal succeeded against sentence but not verdict). If anyone from Ireland can tell us differently so be it.<br>The Irish love their sports heroes whereas he would have had a high profile fall from grace in the UK.
A UK reprimand does not go on a criminal record. How I know this information can be left to your imagination….;)
Quote: from jackane24 on 7:53 pm on Oct. 17, 2006[br]A UK reprimand does not go on a criminal record. How I know this information can be left to your imagination….;)
Not on dope I hope?
list of airlines on which passenger behaviour goes by the standards of Irish courts:
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/oper_list.asp?intPage=1
<br>photo of Mr Carberry for future reference:
http://www.jockeysroom.com/PaulCarberry300x563.jpg
<br>best regards
wit
There was a previous thread on this subject where people linked Carberrys behaviour to 9/11 and the war on terror.
Quote: from Lingfield on 7:56 pm on Oct. 17, 2006[br]
Quote: from jackane24 on 7:53 pm on Oct. 17, 2006[br]A UK reprimand does not go on a criminal record. How I know this information can be left to your imagination….;)
Not on dope I hope?<br>
They could make a film about it Dope and Dopier ;)
what would have me worried if he showed up on any plane I’m on in future is that:
a.  none of the reports I’ve seen have suggested that he had the excuse of being intoxicated; and
b.  at trial his evidence was found to be "contrived"
To me that paints a picture of a man (a) who is not quite right in the head and (b) who even at trial was in denial over / seeking to trivialise his actions.
Reports of the appeal decision would seem to have the Irish appeal court reinforcing any such notions of denial / triviality.
<br>I’m not saying prison would have been any more of a  solution.
<br>What I am saying is:
– it may be that this experience has embedded in his mind the danger of what he did – I don’t know. ÂÂÂ
– it may be that he has undergone professional assessment and it has been concluded that he is unlikely to have, or act on,  a similar notion entering his mind in future – I don’t know.
– What I do know is that the reports don’t leave me with any confidence that its now known why he did what he did. ÂÂÂ
– If that’s the case, how can anyone be happy that it won’t re-occur – when the risk of being wrongly optimistic about it could easily be asphyxiation?
"Bite me once, shame on you.<br>Bite me twice, shame on me."
Or am I missing something ?
best regards
wit
Quote: from wit on 6:25 pm on Oct. 18, 2006[br]what would have me worried if he showed up on any plane I’m on in future is that:
a. none of the reports I’ve seen have suggested that he had the excuse of being intoxicated; and
b. at trial his evidence was found to be "contrived"
To me that paints a picture of a man (a) who is not quite right in the head and (b) who even at trial was in denial over / seeking to trivialise his actions.
Reports of the appeal decision would seem to have the Irish appeal court reinforcing any such notions of denial / triviality.
<br>I’m not saying prison would have been any more of a solution.
<br>What I am saying is:
– it may be that this experience has embedded in his mind the danger of what he did – I don’t know.
– it may be that he has undergone professional assessment and it has been concluded that he is unlikely to have, or act on, a similar notion entering his mind in future – I don’t know.
– What I do know is that the reports don’t leave me with any confidence that its now known why he did what he did.
– If that’s the case, how can anyone be happy that it won’t re-occur – when the risk of being wrongly optimistic about it could easily be asphyxiation?
"Bite me once, shame on you.<br>Bite me twice, shame on me."
Or am I missing something ?
best regards
wit
Im curious to know since I havent been following it but what exactly did happen….was there a full scale fire fight or did he blacken some paper?? Im also curious as to how he explained it away??
SHL
From the Irish Independent:
Passenger:<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>"There was absolute consternation on board," said badly shaken passenger Paul Devitt (58), who was on the flight from Malaga.
"A man was reading a newspaper when his friend sitting beside him set fire to it . . . he was a total idiot," he said.
"They put it out and then stuffed the paper under the seat. We could smell the smouldering."
"The steward came running through the plane with a bottle of water in his hand. Everyone was looking for where the burning smell was coming from," said Mr Devitt<br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<br>Carberry:<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
AN air hostess described how some airline passengers began to cry after a "very scary" incident when top jockey Paul Carberry set fire to a newspaper during a flight.
Mr Carberry told a court yesterday that the incident was "a freak accident" that happened when he was "fidgeting" with a cigarette lighter.
…..He told the investigating garda he was "just messing" with the lighter by flicking it on and off when his friend David Condon sitting beside him opened a newspaper and a page caught fire.
Mr Condon extinguished the fire in a couple of seconds.
<br>When asked by Catherine Irvine, prosecuting, if he believed that "messing with a lighter" was reckless behaviour in an aircraft, Mr Carberry replied "yes".
When she asked him if it could have caused panic, he said it could if the fire had "got out of hand".
James Dwyer, defending, said Mr Carberry had travelled on aircraft for many years in the course of his profession as a jockey. He was charged with a serious offence which carried a potentially very serious penalty for him.
His client was very apologetic and had explained it was a freak accident. He asked for the charge to be dismissed. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<br>Judge (from RTE):<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>…the trial judge described Carberry’s evidence at the time as contrived.
<br>He noted his testimony to the court had three important variations on the original statement he gave gardai in Dublin airport.<br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
best regards
wit
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