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Maybe from a betting point of view the French and other countries way of all horses in the same ownership are coupled for betting purposes might be a way forward. I know this is a controversial subject but IMO something has to be done if only for the sake of the new punters who bet horses that have absolutely no chance of winning. On more than one occasion during Royal ascot the missus was going to back a pacemaker and I had to explain the situation to her and thank god none of them were placed otherwise I would have been sleeping with the dogs!!
From a purist point of view then surely there must be a way of interpreting the rules to stop this happening or at least reducing the amount of time it happens.
James Willoughby presented stats to show that the chances of all horses running as a ‘team’ are improved. Whether this truly helps the best horse win, or just a particular horse on the team, is debatable. You can understand the cold logic of exploiting this for commercial reasons, while it is allowed, but personally I’d close the door on it,.
It was the one thing that REALLY used to get Sir Henry’s goat. If a jockey got beat on one of his and complained of a lack of pace. I remember it happening with Passage Of Time in the Nassau and he was furious. It wouldn’t be a pacemakers fault if there was a slow pace.
This brings to mind the 1997 renewal of the Eclipse, in which Kieren Fallon & Bosra Sham got themselves boxed in, hence unable to challenge the eventual winner Pilsudski. Sir Henry was not best pleased, opining that, ‘if she’d dictated she would have won 6 lengths’. Fallon lost the ride.
The Great Man must surely have missed Steve Cauthen when he returned to the US. Speaking of whom, I don’t recall Slip Anchor requiring a pacemaker in his 1985 Derby (‘Well done, old fruit’, says Henry to Cauthen).
Anyway, if Sir Henry didn’t use pacemakers, and I can’t recall an example of this, that’s good enough for me. Let’s do away with them.
Summoner was quite a cool pacemaker in the QEII back in 2001, only that Richard Hills forgot to lose the race on him….
Or Cape Cross (everybody should know him) beating the highly rated Kahal in the 1998 Lockinge.
It was the one thing that REALLY used to get Sir Henry’s goat. If a jockey got beat on one of his and complained of a lack of pace. I remember it happening with Passage Of Time in the Nassau and he was furious. It wouldn’t be a pacemakers fault if there was a slow pace.
This brings to mind the 1997 renewal of the Eclipse, in which Kieren Fallon & Bosra Sham got themselves boxed in, hence unable to challenge the eventual winner Pilsudski. Sir Henry was not best pleased, opining that, ‘if she’d dictated she would have won 6 lengths’. Fallon lost the ride.
The Great Man must surely have missed Steve Cauthen when he returned to the US. Speaking of whom, I don’t recall Slip Anchor requiring a pacemaker in his 1985 Derby (‘Well done, old fruit’, says Henry to Cauthen).
Anyway, if Sir Henry didn’t use pacemakers, and I can’t recall an example of this, that’s good enough for me. Let’s do away with them.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Oh, and Bahri won the QE II as well when Willie decided to against his pacemaker and race alone under the trees.
It was the one thing that REALLY used to get Sir Henry’s goat. If a jockey got beat on one of his and complained of a lack of pace. I remember it happening with Passage Of Time in the Nassau and he was furious. It wouldn’t be a pacemakers fault if there was a slow pace.
This brings to mind the 1997 renewal of the Eclipse, in which Kieren Fallon & Bosra Sham got themselves boxed in, hence unable to challenge the eventual winner Pilsudski. Sir Henry was not best pleased, opining that, ‘if she’d dictated she would have won 6 lengths’. Fallon lost the ride.
The Great Man must surely have missed Steve Cauthen when he returned to the US. Speaking of whom, I don’t recall Slip Anchor requiring a pacemaker in his 1985 Derby (‘Well done, old fruit’, says Henry to Cauthen).
Anyway, if Sir Henry didn’t use pacemakers, and I can’t recall an example of this, that’s good enough for me. Let’s do away with them.
Remember Slip Anchor well, one of my favourite horses of all time. I was 18 years old when backing him ante-post @ 16/1 for the Derby; made all and never in trouble. Owner Lord Howard De Walden actually bought Rakaposhi King to lead Slip Anchor. However, the great horse would not allow anything to get in front of him. So sadly, there’s no doubt in my mind had Coolmore been around in the 1980’s Slip Anchor would not have won the Derby. He’d have been taken on by a pacemaker/spoiler and either made to go too fast or if restrained pulled his chance away. Rider of the pacemaker sacrificing his own chance for the good of the team, to ensure the apricot colours of their main rival (and 9/4 favourite) did not win.
Value Is EverythingRakaposhi King turned out to be quite a good horse himself as he was runner up to Triptych in one of her Coronation Cup wins, which if memory serves was run in similar stormy conditions to this years Oaks.
I also clearly remember Reference Point in the Eclipse was hassled part of the way down the back straight by Media Starguest (who was in as Triptych’s pacemaker), initially Media Starguest was slow out the stalls (as RP went off like a scalded cat) but then his jockey scrubbed him along to race upside RP and I think that stopped Cauthen from getting a breather into RP and arguably was a part of the reason he got beaten – the fact that RP was able to keep galloping up that Sandown hill after going that fast early on made my admiration of him grow even more.
Would loved to have seen Cauthen around these days as he would have mopped up these tactical G1s with his innate ability to front run at a proper gallop (instead of these go off fast, then slow them down and stack them all up behind you then quicken from the front races we get now). Cecil was always of the opinion that if nobody wanted to make it then his horses were quite capable of doing it themselves and that never really changed until the QE2 with Frankel when he used Bullet Train to be his pacemaker – but the 2000g and 1st Sussex St showed that he was able to do it himself if he needed to.
We have seen that the odd pacemaker does win (that have been mentioned in previous posts) but that tends to be when they are ridden with a bit of common sense together with being given a bit too much rope by the other jockeys – Windsor Palace upsetting St Nicholas Abby at the Curragh is another that springs to mind.
I also remember in Nashwan’s Eclipse win Cecil used Opening Verse as a pacemaker for Indian Skimmer and Greensmith was a pacemaker for Warning and while down the back straight they were not that far clear of the big three going around the bend turning for home Opening Verse took off to such an extent that he managed to finish 2nd ahead of the grey mare at a huge price.
Personally I think trainers should declare which of their horses is a pacemaker so that everybody knows before the race and are therefore in a better position to make an informed choice betting wise – sometimes it is hard for well versed people in the game to know when a horse will be used/sacrificed so imagine how confused/duped newer people to racing would feel, which is hardly likely to entice them to come racing again.
It’s a tricky one but with the money involved in stud fees for the big owners running pacemakers makes sense to ensure they optimise the chance of the chosen one. As we have seen on occasions either poor jockeyship in letting decent pacemakers build up too much of a lead or poor pacemaking can end up with some big winners. The Irish Derby will be a fascinating contest especially with the ease in the ground. Capri or Douglas mcarthur could easily steal the race and it’s not as if aidens second or third haven’t won the race before. It all depends on which horse has come forward the most from both of the derbies. Capri ew looks the value bet to me. I hope wings of eagles does it as he was the totally worthy winner of the Derby. On balance pacemakers are a good idea.
It’s a tricky one but with the money involved in stud fees for the big owners running pacemakers makes sense to ensure they optimise the chance of the chosen one.
Seen that argument a few times in this thread. Basically, ‘it’s ok if the rich and powerful do it’. Don’t get me wrong, if it’s deemed to be within the rules then of course they’ll do it to protect their own interests, I understand that. It’s the reason the rules wont change.
If I owned the favourite for The Derby (nice thought!) and my trainer came to me and said that he was worried that the lack of pace might be the colt’s undoing and went on to recommend that I enter another of my horses to make sure there’s an honest pace then 100% I would make that decision.
You cannot blame anyone for doing it and whilst the massive powers of Coolmore, Godolphin, Qatar and Juddmonte who have such a stake in British racing wish to do this then you cannot blame the BHA for condoning it.
So on Saturday
– Wings of Eagles the Chosen One
– The Anvil and Taj Mahal sacrifical victims
– Capri and Douglas M have earned the right to do their own thing and give themselves a chance?Hate the team tactics thing and the way Ballydoyle smother these races and it tarnishes their achievements for me.
I know how the stable jockey thing works but also poor that a ride couldn’t be found for Padraig Beggy amongst the fleet of horses as thanks and consolation for winning at Epsom.
I suppose that’s the thanks you get for not sticking to the anticipated stallion plan.
I’m in the Hayley Turner camp when it comes to Ballydoyle I’m afraid and think its healthier for racing when their multiple runner scenarios don’t go to plan.
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