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Should pacemakers be allowed?
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-ra … 09770/top/
Rumh is to supplemented for the ST Leger as a pacemaker on Monday.
Now connections will use the excuse that she’s running on her own merit, but will set off at 100 mph (ie fast pace) and finish up with everything passing her.
Clearly not trying to obtain the best place possible.
Aiden O’Brien always says he uses pacemakers for everyone’s benefit because everyone wants a decent pace. That has to be questionable as he uses some quality animals as pacemakers and while his other horses can afford to forget about the pacemaker other runners in the race can’t.
If a pacemaker intentionally goes off at 1m4f pace when racing at 1m6f it is not "trying to win". Therefore should be treated as such by stewards. They have absolutely NO chance of winning. I don’t think it favours connections other runners either. Pacemakers going too fast can safely be ignored by the whole field. So just as well not be there.
There is nothing wrong with pacemakers who go off at true 1m6f pace when racing at that trip. As they can still win if (in the unlikely event) they are good enough.
I think Godolphin usually make better use of their pacemakers (eg Rumh in the Yorkshire Oaks) than Coolmore (International, Prince Of Wales etc), by not going off at a ridiculous pace.
Value Is EverythingIf a pacemaker intentionally goes off at 1m4f pace when racing at 1m6f it is not "trying to win". Therefore should be treated as such by stewards. They have absolutely NO chance of winning. I don’t think it favours connections other runners either. Pacemakers going too fast can safely be ignored by the whole field. So just as well not be there.
There is nothing wrong with pacemakers who go off at true 1m6f pace when racing at that trip. As they can still win if (in the unlikely event) they are good enough.
Who’s going to rule on all that? Judge Pickles? Mike Cattermole?Pacemakers can’t always be safely ignored by all other horses in a race but they can be by their stablemates, the pacemakers themselves have sometimes been classic horses.
If a pacemaker intentionally goes off at 1m4f pace when racing at 1m6f it is not "trying to win". Therefore should be treated as such by stewards. They have absolutely NO chance of winning. I don’t think it favours connections other runners either. Pacemakers going too fast can safely be ignored by the whole field. So just as well not be there.
There is nothing wrong with pacemakers who go off at true 1m6f pace when racing at that trip. As they can still win if (in the unlikely event) they are good enough.
Who’s going to rule on all that? Judge Pickles? Mike Cattermole?Pacemakers can’t always be safely ignored by all other horses in a race but they can be by their stablemates, the pacemakers themselves have sometimes been classic horses.
Stewards are "going to rule on all that" Eddie!
A non-tryer is a non-tryer is a non-tryer. If a horse in a Class 6 handicap were to go off at a suicidal pace, then it would be looked in to for being a non-tryer. It should be the same with pacemakers in a Group 1 race.
If an 800 metre runner goes off at 400 metre pace in the Olympics he can safely be ignored by everyone; because he’s certain to come back to the field. It’s the same with horse racing.
Value Is EverythingBallydoyle pacemakers have actually won or been placed in the classics.See Dylan Thomas,Roderick OConnor and this year Memphis Tennessee just failed to make it into the frame in the Derby.
Stewards are "going to rule on all that" Eddie!
A non-tryer is a non-tryer is a non-tryer. If a horse in a Class 6 handicap were to go off at a suicidal pace, then it would be looked in to for being a non-tryer. It should be the same with pacemakers in a Group 1 race.
If an 800 metre runner goes off at 400 metre pace in the Olympics he can safely be ignored by everyone; because he’s certain to come back to the field. It’s the same with horse racing.
Gingertipster, You have now switched from somebody going a 1m4f pace in a 1m6f race to a "suicidal" pace.
It may be me but I somehow doubt most people even our "excellent" stewards differentiating correctly on a variety of ground and tracks race pace between 12fs and 14fs watching on a tv especially when they will be convicting someone of a very serious offence.Gingertipster, You have now switched from somebody going a 1m4f pace in a 1m6f race to a "suicidal" pace.
Same thing.
Experienced jockeys know when they’ve gone far too fast. so do experienced stewards.Value Is EverythingBallydoyle pacemakers have actually won or been placed in the classics.See Dylan Thomas,Roderick OConnor and this year Memphis Tennessee just failed to make it into the frame in the Derby.
Those were front runners Andyod, not pacemakers. Horses worthy of their place in the line up.
It does though ask the question which makes banning "pacemakers impossible:
When does a front runner become a pacemaker?
If pacemakers are outlawed then you need to ban any horse in any team (with more than one horse) from making the running. Or totally ban any owner/trainer from running more than one horse in a race.
Impossible.Which is why I believe the only answer is to drum in to trainers that stewards will count ANY horse who is not trying to win the race itself – as a
non-tryer
.
Value Is EverythingIf pacemakers are outlawed then you need to ban any horse in any team (with more than one horse) from making the running. Or totally ban any owner/trainer from running more than one horse in a race.
Impossible.Which is why I believe the only answer is to drum in to trainers that stewards will count ANY horse who is not trying to win the race itself – as a
non-tryer
.
Like I’d said in the OP connections will simply say such horses are there on their own merits, even though punters and the racing media will know that they are nothing less than pacemakers.
Can I just ask the question "What would happen if the pacemaker Rumh wasn’t supplemented. The stalls are hardly going to fling open and all the runners are going to trot out because nobody wants to make the running, are they? " More likely the horses will still run at a decent pace but all will be trying their best to win.
GT – I know where you are coming from but there is no chance whatsoever of the stewards being able to rule on what is an ‘acceptable’ pace or otherwise.
Also – without sectional timing it’d be entirely subjective.
Experienced punters know 99% of teh time when a horse is likely to be a sacrificial pacesetter. But, in a big race (and it is often in big, important races), your casual punters can look at a horse which, on the face of it, appears to have a chance so they have their tenner on. Then the beast goes off like Usain Bolt and they’ve done their cash. You could argue that such horses are priced accordingly but I disagree, often they are 33/1 or 50/1 when they should be 500/1 or 1000/1.
I’m not in favour of coupling so I’m not sure about the answer. You could ask them to declare pacemakers, but that wouldn’t work either I guess.
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Without pacemakers, who are not trying to win the big race (though they sometimes do) what are we left with?
French-style dawdles, followed by a sprint. False results.
And who will be the first people to moan about that? The same people who moan about non-trying pacemakers…
Provided the pacemaker isn’t ridden to impede the opposition, we need to use a bit of that generally over-rated commodity, common sense, on this one!
The pacemaker should go wide when his job is done. Confront did impede So You Think in the Coral Eclipse.He should remove himself by going wide at the first opportunity and not interfere with the other horses.Yesterday SYT went wide around the pacemaker not up his inside.I only point this out in order to legitimise the pacemaker role.A pacemaker should not become part of the final process so to speak.
The only man to have made effective use of pacemakers in the past few seasons has been Jim Bolger.
GT – I know where you are coming from but there is no chance whatsoever of the stewards being able to rule on what is an ‘acceptable’ pace or otherwise.
Also – without sectional timing it’d be entirely subjective.
Experienced punters know 99% of teh time when a horse is likely to be a sacrificial pacesetter. But, in a big race (and it is often in big, important races), your casual punters can look at a horse which, on the face of it, appears to have a chance so they have their tenner on. Then the beast goes off like Usain Bolt and they’ve done their cash. You could argue that such horses are priced accordingly but I disagree, often they are 33/1 or 50/1 when they should be 500/1 or 1000/1.
I’m not in favour of coupling so I’m not sure about the answer. You could ask them to declare pacemakers, but that wouldn’t work either I guess.
So what you are saying Corm, is that if any jockey in
any
race (not talking pacemakers) wants to ride a non-tryer… All he/she needs to do is go off at a suicidal fast pace and as you say…..
"there is no chance whatsoever of the stewards being able to rule on what is an ‘acceptable’ pace or otherwise".
I think stewards are more intelligent than you give them credit for Corm.
Without wishing to annoy Reet:
Say an outsider was sure to run "on its own merits" in a Group 1 and his chance is 33/1. The horse is then announced as a "pacemaker" and priced up at 100/1.
If a punter considers the horse better than a 1% chance of winning so backs it, or has backed it ante-post without knowing it is a "pacemaker"… Why should the punternot
get a run for his money? Even if it is a mug punter who just backs the horse at 100/1 because he/she likes the name… Mug punters deserve a run for their money too.
A non-tryer is a non-tryer whether a pacemaker or not a pacemaker.
I believe all that needs to be done is for the BHA (or whoever is in charge of stewarding) to write an open letter in the Racing Post to all trainers. Warning them that pacemakers need to make a pace that may be true, but
not
a suicidal one. And need to try and win the race themselves, if not connections will face the consequences of being a non-tryer.
Whether it is very difficult to prove a pacemaker has gone off at a suicidal pace or not, the threat (which will be repeated every year) should be enough of a deterrent.Value Is EverythingThe pacemaker should go wide when his job is done. Confront did impede So You Think in the Coral Eclipse.He should remove himself by going wide at the first opportunity and not interfere with the other horses.Yesterday SYT went wide around the pacemaker not up his inside.I only point this out in order to legitimise the pacemaker role.A pacemaker should not become part of the final process so to speak.
Andyod,
There are already rules on "team tactics" which stop horses from interfering with rivals for the benifit of the same connections other horses. Which you seem to be suggesting happened in the Eclipse. I saw no such thing. There was no interference.The thing I did see was Confront deliberately going wide to allow Workforce a run up the inner… Which could be seen as not giving Confront the "best chance of winning".
Value Is Everything
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