- This topic has 228 replies, 46 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
Grasshopper, while I agree with your views on America’s less than moral way of treating a lot of its citizens, I still have to make the point that colour does appear make a difference. If it didn’t then why are blacks twice as likely to find themselves living in poverty than their white counterparts?
It’s very simple, firefox – forty years ago, blacks were TEN times as likely to be in poverty, than their white counterparts.
Statistically, things have actually improved for black US citizens since the 1960’s, whereas they have gone in the opposite direction for white US citizens.
If you’ll forgive the horrendous pun, I think you see things a little too ‘black-and-white’, and you are missing some of the subtleties associated with this issue.
……… while I agree with your views on America’s less than moral way of treating a lot of its citizens, I still have to make the point that colour does appear make a difference. If it didn’t then why are blacks twice as likely to find themselves living in poverty than their white counterparts?
Where do you place Latino’s in the equation then – where their poverty rate is almost as bad as for African Americans?
the simple fact remains that blacks are statistically disadvantaged in American society, finding themselves twice as likely to end up living below the poverty line as any other ethnic grouping.
.. so what?
America needs to confront if it is ever to win respect (rather than foster animosity) across the globe, especially in the developing world.
.. thats the biggest load of rubbish you have said yet. Can you name one country in the developing world that isn’t homophobic, genocidal or rascist. I’ve just left Malaysia where Chinesse and Indians pay a different tax rate to the Malays, even if they were born there. I’m sitting in Indonesia who recently tried to exterminate the Timoresse. I’ll be travelling back through Dubia .. the less said about Arab countries the better, don’t you think? You need to get out and about a bit and see how other people live before you start bemoaning the plight of blacks in the US. They even get welfare, that’s money for doing nothing, in the states don’t they .. in a real rascist country they would just let them starve, say like in Tibet for example.
The developing world doesn’t want equality.
An important thing to remember in this debate is that a disproprtionate numbere of blacks live in disadvantaged areas of the United States. Often their poverty is a result of social factors and should not be attributed to racism.
Your facts regarding the disadvantages many non-white races are confronted with in the United States may be correct Firefox but it is both illogical and dangerous to attribute that to racism. Not saying that racism doesn’t exist, it’d be naive to think otherwise, but quoting statistics for phenomena which may have many causes, direct and indirect, doesn’t prove it.good answers dave Jay
Do any of those countries have affirmative action for their minorties?
There is one arab country that even bans those of a certain race even visiting. Saudi and jews. Imagine if say Italy banned blacks on the same basis
I have long found the acceptance by many of so much bigotry that exists in the less developed world (principly on the left) pretty disgusting. And theres an element of "they dont know any better"…which is in itself?
I would contend that most european countries have far greater degrees of racism than the US. Certainly purely racist parties do remarkably well on the continent
And to give a near to home social example, lets just look at what we see in their football matches. Do US baseball crowds boo and make monkey noises at black opponents?
And we wont even start on eastern europe
I will steer clear of the tiresome insinuation that because i believe that blacks now have an equal chance of progressing in the USA as most other races and are thus not seriously disadvantaged, i must therefore be a member of the BNP
Cormack. that might be true to some extent but the deep south has oustripped the rust belt in economic prosperity in the last few decades. Ok Missisippi and parts of Lousiana are a mess, but I would contend that there have been greater opportunities to prosper in certain states with larger black populations than in some traditionally white ones. Tricky though, because variations within states can be immense
America needs to confront if it is ever to win respect (rather than foster animosity) across the globe, especially in the developing world.
this is almost hysterically funny
Which country do those from the third world wish to emigrate to if they get half a chance?
Which one above all others?
France with le Pen getting 20% or whatever?
Germany with its skinheads?
Japan? LOL
Dubai?
I would proudly venture that the Uk would be high on list of course, but without any doubt in my mind at all it would be the
U S A
Face it the US socal security system makes ours look like a gift from god.
Mcains running mate looks a raving redneck, her speach made me want too hurl. If she cannot practice what she preaches ( abstance, IE her teenage daughter pregnant), she hasnt got a bloody hope in hell. She lacks any international experince, she dosnt even agree on energy poolicy with her boss IE driling in the arctic wildlife refuges.
Their party has royally messed America up, got them into two wars one of which they didnt need too fight in the first place.Clivex please provide factual statistics to support your assumption.
LOL
As if thats needed to prove thatt the USA is the premier destination for anyone from the less developed world
I think where I come form is that if a disproportionate number of blacks find themselves living in deprived areas, the government need to a) recognise this and b) invest signifcant sums to regenerate those areas in order to attract business and wealth
In other words discriminatory seperate development. What is clearly being said is that this is a problem if blacks are affected. Not whites in rust belt communities or latinos or whites in the Appalacian mountain areas or asians
This must only apply to blacks
Again
is that if a disproportionate number of blacks find themselves living in deprived areas
That is the criteria made very clear. It is a racially selective criteria and the word "if" is very significant. Because "if not"….
Firefox, in the UK "a disproportionate number of blacks live in deprived areas". Does this make the UK institutionally racist, in the same way that you claim it does the US?
In both the UK and the US, there are laws which actively prevent a person from being denied a job, home, welfare etc, on the basis of skin-colour or race. These laws represent the "institution", and are inherently anti-racist.
Does racism exist in the US?
Of course it does, and no-one would deny it, but that does not make the country institutionally racist, as you appear to be claiming.
I don’t understand American politics; McCain and crazy mad woman are talking about new beginnings and change..it’s like us having a general election and the Labour Party saying ‘the Labour Party are useless, so vote for the…the Labour Party’……I thought no one could be worse than Bush but the thought of the Palin woman being the most powerful woman on the planet if/when McCain is too old to function properly [in about 2 1/2 years time I’d imagine] is beyond belief….
By the way, I am sure there a number of regular contributors on here who find your continued pigeon holing of the German nation in a derogatory way rather unsavoury – to suggest German skinheads are so prevalent as to deter economic migrants is insulting in the extreme given that country’s recent history.
So if you were a black migrant you would choose germany…well lets say the east of germany…instead of, or just as much as, America would you?
Yeah right
You wont address this though will you
That is the criteria made very clear. It is a racially selective criteria and the word "if" is very significant. Because "if not"….
Lets put it simply and see if you would agree with the following
think where I come from is that if a disproportionate number of jews find themselves living in deprived areas, the government need to a) recognise this and b) invest significant sums to regenerate those areas in order to attract business and wealth
and remeber of course that every other race would have to pay towards this seperate development for jews
Imagine a politician stating that he would invest "if a disproportionate number of " any one race found themselves supposedly lagging behind?
We are in the Farrakhan world now arent we? or maybe other racially exclusive leaders. I would be certain that le Pen would endorse that policy for whites
These are extreme examples, but I can honestly say in 20 years working in white collar roles within the UK I came across racism on a number of levels at the very least weekly. These roles were based in Central London and the south east countries mainly Kent and Herts
I see
A SE problem then is it? What complete garbage
Firstly i do not believe for one moment that you came across weekly racism over 20 years. Thats 1000 instances isnt it? At least?
Secondly having worked for longer still in offices around london I can claerly state that racist behaviour or racist remarks are extremely rare. They would have to be FFS. Anyone trotting out that stuff is obviously putting their job at real risk.
I’ve actually got today’s Independent, firefox; my partner told me to read the article but I’m not sure that I want to!……at least Michael Moore will have someone to make a new film about…can’t imagine what Gore Vidal [greatest living American] thinks of her!
McCains voicemail to Palin leaked to the press : http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/mcca … e_8644.php
1) A black employee of a company I worked for was called "nigger" in a row with a white manager. The white manager was highly thought of and expected to become board appointed. The black man involved was from Nigeria, and a very shy mild mannered guy. He complained but the investigative committee used their perusasive powers to not only ensure the victim accepted a heartfelt apology but also the offending manager became board appointed within 6 months. I urged the Nigerian to take the matter to the race relations board but he said "what’s the point, I don’t want any trouble and these people could make it hard for me when I apply for other jobs".
If you were to replace "race relations board" with "industrial tribunal", the man you talk about would be deemed pathetic and defeatist (as well as having poor grammar, but that is academic). However, becuase he is black (which to his credit he has not appeared to express explicitly, only emphasising the lack of substance in your example) he is oppressed? Positive discrimination on your part as far as I’m concerned.
I also agree with the points made by Grass, Corm and Dave Jay regarding the struggle the black minority in America will suffer under the weight of statistics. Unfortunately for backwards pre-Civil Rights America, the slaves were only truly freed forty years ago (pardon the horrible line- it’s quite late) and any equilibrium that will surely one day be struck will take a lot longer than has so far been provided. You say that the only explanation would appear to be institutionalised racism, whereas there is no reason that the futility still felt by the fathers and grandfathers of the current generation of African-Americans is still holding them back in many cases.
Frantic backtracking now isnt it Firefox? All over the place. Suddenly he cares about all races
Clivex wrote:
and remeber of course that every other race would have to pay towards this seperate development for jewsWhy is that a problem?
Of course its a problem. Any money thrown at the seperate development of one race is not going to be acceptable
You think a struggling latino is going to be happy to pay extra tax to fund another racial group?
That it is your opinion. I know what I have experienced, and have provided reasonably detailed anecdotal evidence with my main argument being supported by factual statistics.
Yeah. Two examples. Wheres the other 998? No point in arguing further but its up to others to decide whether to believe that you have seen 1000 plus examples of racist behaviour in middle management offices
You are out of your depth. Boring dated 80’s Livingstone style left wing drivel without even the slightest attempt to think through the consequences and practicalities of your laughable and racially motivated proposals
And your "ideas" would insult most blacks. The suggestion that they need "special help" (whereas asians and latinos can prosper on their own presumably) is of course, in itself something you routinely accuse others of
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.