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The sort of ride that does nothing for the image of racing.
What was the difference between that ride and a non-trier? Apparently, the horse was ‘awkward’ so that means it’s fine for Moore to down tools?
This guy appears to operate by his own rule book. He decides how much effort he needs to make, not the Stewards.
The write up says the horse ‘weakened’. Yes, it’s going to look like that when a jock has given up, and is just going through the motions.
If you allow this kind of ride you almost encourage the worst aspects of racing – horses deliberately not running on their merits. What’s to stop them easing horses – when there is nothing physically wrong – and just saying the horse was ‘awkward’?
Just a Little OTT there, Stilvi
Horse didn’t seem to appreciate being coralled in on rail to settle and knocking in on it early on, seemed a bit unbalanced. I’d forgive Ryan on this one.
Horse pulled hard and predictably folded having wasted valuable energy in the first half of the race
It’s looking like he’s just not that good
Not sure I see where you are coming from at all superman couldn’t have won on that horse today
Jeez, Stilvi. You were looking at the same race as me, right?
Spot on FF.I’d originally backed Charyn with a saver on Nostrum. But change of plan…
Flight Plan was a non-runner and I was expecting him to mix it with Nostrum and Pogo up front. So with no Flight Plan and with Pogo more a 7f horse than a miler I thought Nostrum might get a fairly soft lead as he’d raced from the front or raced prominently in all his races previously … So in the last 5 minutes before the off I switched to have Nostrum as the main bet and Charyn the saver… Only for Ryan to hold Nostrum up.However, it soon became apparent why. Suspect he’d either been a bit too free to post or just found he was too free at home and needed something to settle behind. Therefore they tried holding him up. It didn’t work and he was far too free and even collided with the rail… What’s more, he displayed an awkward head carriage and hung right handed in the straight. An impossible ride. Running as though either temperament or a physical problem. Maybe had he raced from the front he would not have pulled so hard, but I think that’s unlikely. Probably have been even worse.
Nostrum had also got beat at odds-on in his two previous starts. Finishing lame on his last start in the Strensall at York and looking like an easy winner in the Thouroughbrd Stakes at Goodwood… Only to fold tamely inside the final furlong.
Reading his form beforehand, he’d been impressive on his first two starts at two before disappointing… And won impressively on reappearance at three, in the Sir Henry Cecil… before disappointing. So I thought the time to be with Nostrum might be first time out and then leave well alone… But this time his physical problems / temperament has got the better of him earlier than previous years.
These things happen.
To answer your points one by one:“The sort of ride that does nothing for the image of racing”.
You’d rather a horse with a probable physical problem be more strongly handled by Moore. Now that would do nothing for the image of racing.“What was the difference between that ride and a non-trier”?
Do you really need to ask?“Apparently, the horse was ‘awkward’ so that means it’s fine for Moore to down tools”?
It wasn’t Moore who downed tools it was the horse. Or at least a physical problem made him unridable.“This guy appears to operate by his own rule book. He decides how much effort he needs to make, not the Stewards”.
No, just you seeing things that don’t exist.“The write up says the horse ‘weakened’. Yes, it’s going to look like that when a jock has given up, and is just going through the motions”.
I backed the horse and am glad Moore gave up; the horse has a physical or mental problem or both.“If you allow this kind of ride you almost encourage the worst aspects of racing – horses deliberately not running on their merits. What’s to stop them easing horses – when there is nothing physically wrong – and just saying the horse was ‘awkward’”?
Everyone (well almost everyone) can see when a horse pulls, when a horse hangs, and when a horse is unridable. Any steward would be able to see the difference when a horse is deliberately not allowed to run on its merits.Instead of accusing Ryan Moore of stopping a horse, you should be thanking him for looking after his mount in exactly the right way.
Learn to race read for ef sake.
Value Is EverythingNone of us can be aware of what ‘feel’ a jockey is getting from a horse as we watch it (either from the stands or on TV). He was clearly hanging badly right pretty much from the moment he turned into the straight (quite a few horse widths off the running rail at that point) with his head noticeably to one side and a bit up in the air (which sometimes can be an indication that something is causing the horse discomfort).
When Ryan (who was very much using his left hand to try to keep him going right) finally gave him a crack (with his whip in his right hand) you could see the horse immediately change his lead and continued to hang right until the running rail stopped him going any further and Ryan may have been conscious of what happened to him in his last race at York, where the RP write up was:
“Raced in second, took keen hold early, raced wide until switched left 6f out, shaken up over 2f out, weakened and eased over 1f out, finished lame (jockey said he never felt comfortable and he was not happy with the way colt was striding out, and so eased colt down in home straight; vet said colt was lame on his left-hind leg)”
For me Ryan absolutely did the right thing in not subjecting the horse to any more urging and easing up to let him come home in his own time. Sadly, all the promise this horse showed as a 2 yr old seems to keep being hindered by some sort of physical issues that keeps popping up – it wouldn’t surprise me if something makes itself known but I would stay well away from backing him whenever he does return.
Think the criticism was rather harsh and a bit knee jerky as the horse clearly had some issue to cause that wayward behaviour.
As I say, a bookies horse. He is the type that will always go off a short price because of his lofty reputation and his fashionable connections. But his career wins amount to a maiden, a Listed race and a Group 3. Not bad but hardly matching his reputation.
He came into this race off two poor efforts. Maybe there was an argument to say catching him fresh was best but I am very wary of backing horses after a dismal effort the time before. He obviously has an issue then and is not over it now. My guess is it is now mental with him. He doesn’t look like a horse which wants to go through the pain barrier and fight.
In Charyn he was up against a race fit and improving rival. I thought he looked by far the best and most reliable option. Anyone backing Nostrum after his previous run was taking a huge risk.
Three apologists, but I suppose it could be worse.
No surprise to see you again Ginge. I count myself very fortunate not to be on the same page as you.
You say you were watching a different race. Yes, and you seem to be reading a different post. All you have done is look for excuses.
The main point is the report found nothing physically wrong with the horse to cause Moore to pack up so easily. He pulled, but horses win races pulling harder than that. He drifted towards the rail, but again no reason just to give up. He made virtually no effort to straighten the horse, or indeed get on the rail, and ride it out to the line. There is also quite a difference between ‘awkward’ (recorded comment) and ‘unrideable’ (your words).
As for your conclusion it is your own fantasy world nonsense. I haven’t once said Moore deliberately stopped the horse. There is a huge difference between that and not trying hard enough. As I said if someone does want to stop one they could just use this sort of ride as an excuse. That can’t be right.
If you just accept that a jock knows best then there is little in point in bothering with Stewards. How can they sanction anyone for not trying hard enough? ‘I was doing the best for the horse M’lud’.
Not all horses run in these types of races as a main target. Still relatively inexperience for the start of a 4 y/o campaign
He’s fresh enough isn’t he and has been in the past which would be a worry first time out.
Stoute will let his horses come into the season in their own time. Workforce lost to Cape Blanco in a derby trialGaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
I don’t think the two situations are comparable.
When Workforce lost in the Dante, it was only his second start. He ran very well, especially as the bit slipped in his mouth. If it hadn’t he might have won.
Nostrum has been beaten at odds on in a race that looked his for the taking. Since then he has put in not one but two dismal efforts, one of which was after a break when he should have been fresh and ready to go.
He is one to be wary about.
100% one to be wary of but also wouldn’t completely write him off going forward
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Perhaps not but I have written him off in my own mind as a betting prospect. He is the sort of horse I might chance at a big price in the hope he is on a going day. But his reputation and run in the Dewhurst behind Chaldean means he is likely to always go off short.
Bookmakers love horses like him.
Personally, if I were Stoute – and if nothing physical comes to light (and with Stoute you rarely hear anyway) – I’d find a 6f race he can be set free from the front up a right hand rail.
Value Is Everything“If you just accept that a jock knows best then there is little in point in bothering with Stewards”.
I never accept that a jock knows best, Stilvi. Couple of times I’ve even been to the stewards myself to complain about rides.
I only trust my eyes.
Value Is Everything“No surprise to see you again Ginge. I count myself very fortunate not to be on the same page as you”.
I am not even on the same book as you on this one, Stilvi.
Nor is anyone else.Value Is Everything
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