- This topic has 78 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by
.
- Posts
So what are the reasons in your opinion?
I see the two as intertwined: a lack of prize money at grassroots level means that new owners are not attracted to the sport and everything else follows.
Come on now children. Play gently. We’re all friends here and love horse racing. As a neutral scot I can see both sides but the scoreline is deceiving in the strengths of the two. The fact that the brits have given up competition in Ireland says it all. The utter domination in the novices is very worrying too. The fact that a lot of the top Irish horses are brit owned is due to the prizemoney and tax breaks but is irrelevant as jp owns loads of horses trained in gb plus many top Irish trainers in gb too.
Is it relevant where they are trained. Not to my eyes but to try and sugar coat the domination is pointless. It’s there as clear as day and will get worse before it gets better. Anyway here’s to tipping all these Irish winners today. That’s all that matters. Easier said than done as so many Irish with chances.🤣British racing struggles for the reasons it always did.
I’m personally glad we don’t have a Tote/Pari-Mutuel monopoly, but it means poor prize money, particularly at the bottom.
I’d date the rise of the Irish at Cheltenham to them joining the Euro, having a stronger currency and the cream of the Irish stores staying more in Ireland.
Success breeds success and once Mullins et al started getting top quality stock and winning big races most wanted their horses trained by him/them.
But Britain’s woes have nothing to do with its big races being won by foreign yards – that’s happened for centuries on and off and only matters to those attached to British yards, your average punter doesn’t care where the winner they backed is trained – and the score in the Prestbury Cup is just a high-profile peg to hang alarm bells on, most U.K. trainers could only dream of having a runner at the meeting anyway.
I’ve nothing against Blake – one of the more intelligent members of the media (though that’s not hard) – and invoking his name in the thread title was pure clickbait learned off clickbait God ERL here! – but the score after Day Two told us nothing we didn’t already know and anyway it’s the bottom end of UK racing most in need of help, not those still competing at the top.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Indeed. The lower end prizemoney in gb is pitiful in jumps and flat compared to Ireland and France. No wonder even small Consortiums chose to have runners in Ireland. Some grade 2 in the UK are the same as listed prizes in Ireland. Until that is addressed nothing will change.
“Your interpretation is completely wrong. It’s the very existence of national hunt racing- at all levels- that is at risk, and that concerns me”.
—————————————
Spot on Gladders.
Value Is Everything12 of the 14 grade 1s to Ireland. All the top novices are Irish trained. The scoreline is deeply worrying from a gb point of view. Unless nicky Henderson has a phenomenal season next season it will be even worse. Nothing will be done and the domination will continue for many years, not that most punters give a toss.
You’re some boy Davies – any mention of your 16/1 Ballyburn bet before he was a short priced fav? Unlike (at least three) forumites who put him up at that price when he WAS that price over a year ago.
Apologies if you did mention it but if not then it’s simply after-timing.You’re some boy, Cormack, countless forumites you could pick up on various things here, but it’s always me – hilarious.
I couldn’t begin to care whether you believe me or not, but then I couldn’t begin to care about anything you say ever.
That utter embarrassment of a home page at YOUR website tells me everything I need to know about your level of understanding of this game, or pride in either it or this forum, before you ever type a word.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Come on guys. I come on here to discuss racing with like minded folk. Twitter and footie forums are the place if you want to have a wee spat. Ruby seems to think it’s just cyclical but unless prizemoney is increased and the better horses sourced for gb trainers it isn’t going to change anytime soon. The Caldwell dispersal seen a few going to gb trainers but it will take a few years of big investment to alter things.
Guys like emmet mullins,gavin Cromwell and Henry de bromhead have shown they can train Cheltenham winners so along with Willie and Gordon elliot that is some battalion to have which doesn’t even include Joseph obrien. Harry Skelton had a tremendous Cheltenham but that was partly due to the handicappers rating of the Irish horses.
I’ve a feeling we will have the same discussion for a good few years to come after each Cheltenham.I don’t think it is cyclical. Mullins has got a serious operation set up now. He appears to get most of the best horses and they are trained to peak when it matters. He also runs them and they are fit and battle hardened. There is no sign of him going into decline, if anything he is likely to get even stronger.
The programme book appears to suit the better class of horse in Ireland. Most of the wealthy British owners are choosing to have their best horses trained there now.
British National Hunt racing is in decline. Skelton clearly had a good week and Ben Pauling is looking like he could break through into the very top rank. But so many trainers are struggling to compete at the top level now.
Take David Pipe, as an example. A few years ago he was taking horses to Cheltenham with chances, especially in the handicaps. This year he had two runners: one started at 100/1, the other at 150/1. Both were pulled up.
There are lots of trainers who run profitable businesses but in terms of Cheltenham they are simply not on the radar. It does make me wonder if they will decide to leave Mullins to it and just focus on races they can win instead, as Nicholls does with Aintree.
David Pipe couldn’t train rainwater to run down a drain …, I’ve given 2 examples of this this week , as I mentioned in the Hunter chase thread Django had a rating for him of around 107 at best for him , gone to to Collins as a Hunter at 11 and is now running well in the 120s … Pipe is a operation in terminal decline
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
I think it has been downhill for Pipe since Grand Crus was beaten in the 3 mile novice chase at the festival. He won the Feltham, impressively defeating both Silvianco Conti and Bobs Worth. He was odds on at Cheltenham but Bobs Worth got his revenge. Grand Crus never won another race, while the other two won Gold Cups, King Georges etc.
His fortunes never really recovered, made worse when his main owner passed away. Now he is not a factor in big races.
Nicholls clocked on to things a few years ago I think and cleans up where he can in the big Saturday races through the winter.
Not a fan of horses being put away but Skelton is clearly good at it. Langer Dan was hidden in plain sight of the handicapper really.
Pauling is a coming force who can train and Derham is likely to be a feature in years to come. I hope Fergal O’Brien can do likewise.
Mullins is much more than a trainer/conditioner and there is so much more to his success than that.
He’s like a CEO of a big corporation really. Managing the contacts to source the best horses, managing the owners many of whom will not be as easy as they look when you see them winning, managing a team of staff with all the issues that will bring. All of that before you start assessing horses and creating programmes for their training and development.
He’ll be 68 this year. Maybe 5 to 7 years before he hands over the reins to Patrick so he could quite feasibly reach 150 Cheltenham winners which would be miraculous. A genius indeed.CAS he can’t train , even with his dad still around to advise he’s now in the bottom rung of the sport , I heard Elliott say yesterday he was delighted to win the Martin Pipe as Pipe was his idol …
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.