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- Total Posts 17716
Folks are continuing to call this a racing problem. It is a society problem. The area of most concern is physical labour. Many industries that rely heavily on physical input also have problems with bullying and harassment.
To say young women have it worse is demeaning to the many young men who are physically and mentally tortured in the workplace every year. Horror stories abound across many industries. Racing is not the sole perpetrator by any means. The building industry, car repair, manufacturing etc are full of traumatic events that violate both workplace laws and those of society in general.
The training period idea is too simplistic. It will not stop workplace problems. There is a need to deal with bullying and harassment across all areas of society. Professional office environments have come a long way. It is difficult for any bad behaviour to go unpunished. Sadly the same can not be guaranteed for primary school children. Kids in the UK are dealing with each other in a violent and abusive way every single day.
It’s a shame that we still don’t deal with this issue well enough at Primary School level let alone those workplaces requiring heavy levels of physical input. Perhaps if we solve problems at the core first then real progress can be made in areas like racing and industry.
Folks are continuing to call this a racing problem. It is a society problem. The area of most concern is physical labour. Many industries that rely heavily on physical input also have problems with bullying and harassment.
To say young women have it worse is demeaning to the many young men who are physically and mentally tortured in the workplace every year. Horror stories abound across many industries. Racing is not the sole perpetrator by any means. The building industry, car repair, manufacturing etc are full of traumatic events that violate both workplace laws and those of society in general.
The training period idea is too simplistic. It will not stop workplace problems. There is a need to deal with bullying and harassment across all areas of society. Professional office environments have come a long way. It is difficult for any bad behaviour to go unpunished. Sadly the same can not be guaranteed for primary school children. Kids in the UK are dealing with each other in a violent and abusive way every single day.
It’s a shame that we still don’t deal with this issue well enough at Primary School level let alone those workplaces requiring heavy levels of physical input. Perhaps if we solve problems at the core first then real progress can be made in areas like racing and industry.
Are you saying that because there are other bad practices elsewhere, the racing industry should not try and stop theirs?
You also write "Professional office environments have come a long way. It is difficult for any bad behaviour to go unpunished." Is that true and why should that be?
Is it just physical work you think is a problem within society? Years ago that was true, but these days construction sites, factories etc. are certainly far better places than they were, and that is because of health & safety legislation, along with government interference. Not perfect by any means and there is still a grey area regarding workers and gangmasters even though the GLA was established in 2005.
Have you ever worked in a racing yard? Do you know many people who have and left? Trainers moan about the youngsters here not wanting to work, and then fill vacancies with foreign workers. Is this because the foreign workers become trapped and will put up with abuse? They have accommodation usually provided and if they complain they lose both job and home.
You think the training period idea is too simplistic. Have you another one to replace it? Youngsters within racing badly need protecting from trainers who abuse horses and staff, along with corrupting the outcome of races. These trainers think they are protected, untouchable. Those connected to VIPs usually are.
Some children at school are bullied but schools have to have policies and procedures written down on how to deal with such matters. They do not always sort problems out but there are outside inspectors who come in periodically to check (Ofsted) and record concerns. They come back quickly too if necessary. Again, some call it government interference but it’s done with the intention of protecting.
What does the BHA do to really protect these youngsters when they leave the racing schools, after just a few weeks, to go and work for trainers.- Total Posts 17716
I’ll get back to this later. Please read my posts again and reconsider. I think you’re taking this too personally.
This is a Racing Forum and surely if you love racing you’d be concerned that things are not right in the racing industry whether it be race fixing or the treatment of young staff.
I don’t doubt there are other places where abuses take place but we’re talking here about the so called "Sport of Kings", a multi million pound industry that is currently trying to reach out to the wider public. How appealing can it be while these practices continue?
If your daughter told you some of the things that happened to her and she worked on a racing yard you would worry every day for her well being both on and off the yard. We had to spend a lot of time and effort trying to repair the damage. I don’t have much knowledge of bad practice in other places. I can only talk about the things I know.
I am glad this has generated some discussion as it does need to brought into the open. Nor1 and I have obviously known and spoken to people who have had really bad times and that is why we have such strong opinions.
I’ll get back to this later. Please read my posts again and reconsider. I think you’re taking this too personally.
I have not taken anything personally. Simply put, having worked in schools, helped run our business within the construction industry, been involved with young people from all walks of life for numerous years, I can truly say I have yet to meet anyone who has experienced the bad practices and abuse that occurs within the racing industry.
Likereetpetite
, I feel strongly about this. If a newspaper, or any other media outlet, can warn unsuspecting youngsters who love horses/have ambitions in becoming a jockey, and have no connections, that would be great.
- Total Posts 17716
A wise man once told me to never try and put words into anyone elses mouth. It will not serve any argument you’re making well.
I have clearly tried to bring some balance to a discussion that seems to yet again focus entirely on racing in a negative light. Bullying and harassment are society problems that begin in playschool.
You have obviously failed to read and comprehend the gist of my posts. I have put forward, albeit very briefly, where I believe the problem needs to be primarily addressed. Whatever you believe with regards to the effectiveness of Ofsted when it comes to bullying and harassment schools are still shamefully behind the eight ball. Kids are ganging up everywhere. Youth on youth crime is murderous in so many urban areas. These groups are also mugging single ladies. Bad behaviour is learnt long before anyone enters any industry be it racing, banking, policing or anything else you can think of.
I have owned, trained and bred racehorses. I first worked in stables at 13 yrs old. One industry job included my final two weeks where I was the sole worker on a training and breeding property with over 50 racehorses, foals, yealings, mares and a stallion. Many were stabled. All had to be cared for properly. It was a nightmare situation and as difficult as any worker in the industry could face. I ultimately walked away in despair because it became obvious that the owner/trainer was taping my phone calls and was harassing me in spite of all I was doing. Never mind the pittance I was being "rewarded" on a weekly basis. Thankfully not all my adventures in the world of horse racing have been as negative as that one.
I also have experience working after school in family businesses that included lumber yards/hardware, chemical manufacturing and poultry farming/slaughter/wholesalers. My other relevant experience is with my brothers who have run building firms for many years ( multi generation business ) along with extensive work in catering/hospitality. Finally I have worked with young offenders and the homeless. It’s been a full life. I have seen all kinds of workplace harassment over many years. The environments that relied heavily on manual labour always contained the worst rates and types of offences.
The good people at NAOSS work very hard to support stable staff in the racing industry. I refer you to the agreement below. To suggest that the industry is not working towards a better workplace and condones harassment in any way is wrong. It’s unfortunate the cases you refer to have not been dealt with to your satisfaction. Without knowing any details or facts it’s difficult to assess the merits of your claim. We do live in a world of legal process. I hope all avenues have been pursued. Of course no agency can make any judgement or instigate any proceedings without following the rule of law. This is relevant whatever industry or enterprise is involved. Racing can do no more than follow the law like everyone else. I’m not sure what else you expect them to do.
Perhaps parents can help children make better judgements about suitable employers?
http://www.naoss.co.uk/pdf/ntf_bullying_agreement.pdf
Finally nepetism will always be rife in the racing industry and I don’t blame anyone who follows such a path. It’s a difficult workplace and people up to the task and realities of life in racing are fewer and further between in an ever soft society. At least kids who have grown up around the sport have had plenty of time to make a less than naive judgement about their futures. It’s probably easier for some to trust a half competent offspring in an ever increasing world of conspiracy theorists as well. That said anyone prepared to work very hard who displays a natural talent in the saddle along with the right manners and attitude will always find opportunities in racing. That mix is a lot rarer than you’d think.
Many thanks
Chiswickian
for your detailed reply. You write:
A wise man once told me to never try and put words into anyone elses mouth. It will not serve any argument you’re making well.
I’m never sure how anyone can judge whether an argument they are making is being made well but never mind, if that is what you think, so be it.
You also say:Without knowing any details or facts it’s difficult to assess the merits of your claim.
You find it difficult to assess, meaning whatever is said you can question because details or facts are not produced.
Fair enough. Facts are important. I’m not prepared to name the youngsters who have had dreadful experiences within the racing industry. I have said enough, but what I have said is absolutely true.Reetpetite,
Thank you for bringing your dismal tale to our attention, and thanks too to Nor and Chiswickian for supplying additional ammo to those like me who believe the Racing ‘workplace’ remains for a large part the Dickensian and Patrician ‘know your place’ environment it always was
Read with dismay but not surprise
Naming names responsible for such vile behaviour is of course best avoided on a public forum but I really do think you should consider approaching a suitably sympathetic journalist to dig deeper. David Ashforth may now, sadly, not be up to it. Paul Haigh might, who as Zorro has contributed to this forum
Cormack will, I’m sure, be able to help you contact him
The public airing of tales such as yours Reetpetite justifies the existence of TRF. Whip debates, RFC, the Fixture List, blah blah blah are but minor irritations on the skin of racing compared to the pervasive cancer of teen-abuse deep within its body
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