March 15, 2008 at 07:39 #7101SalselonMember
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Neptune Collonges has been raised to 178 to accomodate Denman’s rating to 185. In all my time watching racing, I have never seen such a ludicrous rating being given by Phil Smith.
Apparently, at their best, there is now only 2 pounds between Kauto Star and Neptune Collonges.
Such madness I don’t know whether to laugh or cry..March 15, 2008 at 07:44 #151412FlashMember
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Agreed that the ratings are wrong. At peaks I have Kauto 180, Denman 179, Neptune 172.March 15, 2008 at 07:55 #151418The real barneyParticipant
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At the rate the handicapper is "improving" these top horses before the end of the decade we will be looking at horses rated 200+.
If any horse beats anything with a rating "up ten."
God forbid that Master Minded or Denman get beat anytime soon. We could have the situation where the next Pegasus had been hiding his light under a bushel all along.March 15, 2008 at 08:02 #151420SalselonMember
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Kauto Star’s optimum performances have come on a flat track. He does not run to his optimum rating over Cheltenham/Gold Cup distance. I agree with his overall rating of 180, but think it was circa 175 he ran to in the Gold Cup last year. That rating was achieved whilst travelling and jumping with great fluency. Yesterday, it was patently obvious that neither was happening, far before Denman could have taken him out of his comfort zone. I believe he ran a pound or 2 below last year’s form, and certainly not an improvement on it as some are trying to state.
This would give Kauto a rating of circa 173/4, Neptune Collonges a pound behind, and Denman on 179/180.
How could Denman be rated 185?! He was out on his feet after the last, and not idling.
The hype seems to have gotten to Phil Smith in this case.March 15, 2008 at 10:10 #151446stilviParticipant
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I agree entirely. As I said on the other thread it seems as if Denman and Neptune Collonges ran their previous marks and Kauto Star was at least a stone below par. The handicapper appears to be now pandering to the hype merchants who want to portray these horses as world-beaters to try and sell the sport. At this rate If Arkle was around Smith would probably have him on about 300!March 15, 2008 at 10:35 #151454strawbearParticipant
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totally agree salselon. i’m a big fan of neptune but there’s no way on gods earth is this a 178 horse. kauto star clearly way below his official rating on a track / ground not to his liking. the hype surrounding these horses is now bordering on the rediculous.
on the plus side i backed denman. get in there you big fat tank…March 15, 2008 at 11:35 #151470cormack15Keymaster
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Absolutely ludicruous rating.March 15, 2008 at 14:38 #151531PAULCSMember
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The Gold Cup ratings seem well OTT but you can give Master Minded anything you want and it still probably wouldn’t be enough!March 15, 2008 at 14:46 #151534AlchemistParticipant
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I nearly spat my tea acroos the room when I saw. Pathetic.March 15, 2008 at 15:30 #151549FriggoMember
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Phil Smith has just bowed to pressure. The winner of the Gold Cup- whether Kauto, Denman or Celestial Gold- had to be given an OR in the mid-180s given the hype of the race and the rating Master Minded was bound to be given off the back of his win in the Queen Mum. It just so happens that to give Denman such a mark he also had to give Neptune Collonges an inflated rating.March 16, 2008 at 19:19 #151901dave 22Member
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I find the ratings madness also. It wouldnt suprise me if the form is turned on its head next season. Neptune collonge is a useful horse, but not 178. Imagine what the form will look like if he is beaten at punchestown and kauto runs another lifeless race at aintree.
Also, Denman is apparently going to be aimed at next years hennessey, off a mark of 185 there will be very useful horses running off 10 stone. If he isnt as good as this 185 rating he will be exposed. Personally, i have Denman on 178, Kauto and Neptune on 172 for there gold cup performances which i think is more realistic.
People are right, Phil Smith felt he had to give these ratings with the hype surrounding the race, but he will end up with egg on his face imo!March 16, 2008 at 19:39 #151906AragornMember
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I don’t think it’s beyond possibility for a 7yo french bred in his second chase season in the UK to improve a fair bit. He had an interrupted prep this year and was definitely entitled to improve on 161.
Kauto star managed it last year.
Master Minded vs Kauto over 2m4f should be next on the Paul Nicholls horse racing extravaganza.March 16, 2008 at 19:40 #151907clivexMember
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Neptune isnt a fully exposed horse at all and could be improving at a rate of knots but this is way too high
I like the horse a lot but the ratings people could look very silly in a years timeMarch 16, 2008 at 20:53 #151929stilviParticipant
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When considering the amount of improvement Neptune Collonges is not your average 7yo – not many have already won five chases as a 4yo.March 16, 2008 at 22:00 #151942AragornMember
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I agree but in some ways I think that has hidden his ability somewhat. On his first chase start in the UK he ran Our Vic to seven lengths getting 12lbs. At the time they were raving about Our Vic’s performance so not a bad effort. Then after winning the rehearsal chase off top weight as a 5yo they send him back over hurdles, round about the time they realised the talent Kauto Star had in staying chases and that the staying hurdle division was looking shaky.
After he was well beaten by Mighty Man he fell in the cotswold, got done for toe in the GC, then took the Punchestown Gold Cup. Not a bad season for a young horse around at the same time as the best chasers for years.
I was pretty impressed with his win at Wincanton prior to the gold cup, as were the RP as he got an RPR of 180, higher than the 179 they awarded him in the GC.
I just don’t think its that hard to believe he’s improved. He’s trained by the right man after all.
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