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I just think it was one of those unfortuneate things. As others have said, I learned a long time ago never to back anything JP Magnier rides. He can’t ride and its only if the horse is massivley talented that they win.
I totally agree with the comments about JP Magnier being a terrible jockey and I too would not back him with counterfit (unless of course he was outstanding value). But the point is surely:
He took a turn without the starter saying he could. Sure, if close to the animal in front he can pull the horse off, but that is no excuse for taking a turn.
Not to suspend or fine him at all is rediculous
in my opinion, and is no deterent for others. Does not matter if he is a XXXX jockey, he should have a penalty. It was not as if this was his first ride under rules. I trust the failure to sanction was nothing to do with him being a "Magnier".
Mark
Value Is EverythingI do wish that those who are disagreeing with Richard Hoiles on the general basis ‘why should punters be refunded for backing unruly/temperamental horses when if they did their study they’d see they were ungenuine?’ would read the specifics of the post!
ie :
If we had the rule that allows the stewards to
deem a horse a non runner
if it was ‘denied a fair start’
i.e blind left on, rider not on its back when stalls opened, starter didn;t see it was not with the rest of them etc.
I do wish that those who are disagreeing with Richard Hoiles on the general basis ‘why should punters be refunded for backing unruly/temperamental horses when if they did their study they’d see they were ungenuine?’ would read the specifics of the post!
ie :
If we had the rule that allows the stewards to
deem a horse a non runner
if it was ‘denied a fair start’
i.e blind left on, rider not on its back when stalls opened, starter didn;t see it was not with the rest of them etc.
SL,
Richard’s point is a bit vague, I have taken it to mean what I think it means, which is obviously different to your opinion of it SL. The "specifics",( which I assure you I have read thoroughly) are not very clear. If I have got the meaning wrong then I’m sorry.
Really all depends what "denied a fair start" means. And what is included in the "etc." Many punters view of "deniied a fair start" would not be what I would consider it to mean. Does it include whipping around just before the off? Or planting itself? And if so how long for? What if the horse planted itself for 5 seconds then went on to win?
If a jockey left the blind on for a couple of seconds after leaving the stalls, would that be a non-runner? What if he goes on to win?
Yes, I have sympathy wth punters who lost out in the Magnier case, and would not complain if he was deemed a non-runner. But it is difficult to know where to draw the line.
This is not an anti-Hoiles post SL, just (possibly) a difference of opinion. Think he is one of the best commentaters / presenters / racing brains around and is always worth listening to.
Mark
Value Is EverythingYHF,
It happened in the last at Kempton.
Apparently:Magnier thought he was going to clip heels with the one in front so pulled him away, taking a turn, just as the tape went up. Shouted to the starter he was not ready but was not heard.
NO ACTION TAKEN
Any unscrupulous jockey / connections please take note. This is going to make things very simple for layers in the future. All you have to do is get your horse at the back, near the horse in front. Then just as you can see the starter go to start; pull the horse round to take another turn. Shouting in your softest voice "No Sir". AND NO ACTION WILL BE TAKEN.
Now, I don’t say Mr. Magnier did this deliberately. Just that if they do not come down on him, how can they do anything in the future if another jockey does the same? Where it might not be accidental. Will in all probability be impossible to prove. A precedent has been made.
Surely there should have been some action taken?
Mark
I think you should write a screenplay or a book you have a fantastic imagination
Starters do have eyes as well and don’t just depend on the cries from jockeys. If a jock as part of a plan tried that sort of stunt and was seen taking a suspicious turn then what does he do?. Try it again when he is then the centerpoint of the starters attention?If they want to stop a horse there are much simpler ways to do so.
I think you are suffering from pre-Cheltenham boredom
Arristo,
It is a good job I do have a good imagination.
Well, an unscrupulous punter does not need to know that a horse will be taken out to lay it heavily. All he needs to know is that the jockey will be trying to stop the horse. There will be times when trying to stop the horse does not work and it goes on to win.
Say a punter lays a horse at 4/6 when he knows a jockey will be trying to stop the horse. Even if the "stopping" is successful only half the time. It means the punter is laying horses at vastly benneficial prices. He is bound to win over all in the long run, even if a few of the horses he backs go on to win.
Of course a jockey will not be able to do this "trick" more than once or twice; otherwise it will look suspicious. But the punter does not need to use the same jockey every time.
Also, if the BHA suspect anything all they have to do is threaten to take the BHA to court; and show Saturdays race as a similar case. From what I have seen, no jury of normal non-racing people, will be able to tell (beyond reasonable doubt) the difference between a jockey who has "stopped" a horse deliberately by taking another turn; and Saturday’s "accidental" turn.
Magnier should (imo) have faced a long ban / big fine as a deterent for others, even if it was accidental.
Mark
Value Is EverythingGinger, I took Richard’s post to mean horses that were unlucky not to start, ie didn’t start but through no fault of their own. I’m sure that horses that refuse to race, plant, whip round, veer off the track due to whatever temperamental problems they have were not what he was talking about.
If that is the case SL, I’d have less or even no problem with it. However, I doubt if it is easy to conclude what is and what is not temperament / not the horses fault.
It may also cause problems with many punters who will want their money back when it is temperament, not understanding all the complexities.
Mark
Value Is EverythingWhat is so apparent from J,P"s mistake is his lack of animation when he
realises the rest of the field have started without him, you would have expected a bit of arm waving, whip throwing,or maybe a "what the **** have you let them go for you dozey old sod, i shouted Whoa cowboy"!
Nothing, he couldn"t care less!Great ride on Charlie Swan’s Ella Watson at Dundalk this evening.
G’wan JP boy!
Was it a great ride? He won but not sure he had much to do with it because he didn’t seem to be in any kind of rhythm in the finish and to be honest I wasn’t that impressed with the ride Patrick Mullins gave the second. A lot of these winning amatuers in Ireland at the moment are merely getting on good horses that are carrying them to victory rather than showing great ability to win races themselves.
Was it a great ride? He won but not sure he had much to do with it because he didn’t seem to be in any kind of rhythm in the finish and to be honest I wasn’t that impressed with the ride Patrick Mullins gave the second. A lot of these winning amatuers in Ireland at the moment are merely getting on good horses that are carrying them to victory rather than showing great ability to win races themselves.
In fairness Stan I don’t think JP has ever had any kind of rhythm in a finish! Plenty of punters though, most of whom have probably never thrown a leg over a horse, are very quick to put the boot into the likes of JP and Barry Connell but they should be given credit where it’s due. It takes balls to ride in these races and leave themselves open to the abuse and catcalls of pocket talkers.
Mark,
Sorry only just seen your post.
To clarify horses as start only deemed non runner if ‘denied a fair start’ i.e by the actions of someone else not the horse itself. If the tape goes back and or stalls open they just stand there than deemed a runner.
Only if blind off late, stall malfunction, not with field when starter lets them go etc does the rule apply.
Simon Morant or Mervyn Smith 
Starters do have eyes as well and don’t just depend on the cries from jockeys. If a jock as part of a plan tried that sort of stunt and was seen taking a suspicious turn then what does he do?. Try it again when he is then the centerpoint of the starters attention?
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