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I think they should create a 4 mile race restricted to horses called "Sir Percy".
He might just win it.
They will have there big day again next march when he wins the Supreme by 15 lengths.
:jivin:
(Edited by Money on at 5:48 pm on June 20, 2007)
if anyone thinks sir percy is a stayer then fair play, back away. I still reckon on the balance of what he’s done that 1m2f is his trip but I’m considering staying well clear of him in future unless at massive prices until he sorts his life out.
If he needs a fast paced 1m4f then why was he going backwards in what looked a pretty well paced coronation (a far stronger looking race than the 2006 derby) , I think he only looked to be finishing well in last years derby because everything in last years derby (crap ride on dylan thomas aside) was absolutely rubbish. The racing post even recently rated sir percy "the worst derby winner ever" or "the winner of the worst derby ever", cant remember exactly which it was but I agreed 100%.
The horse is running out of excuses at the moment imho.
I have Sir Percy running to around 112 today and 110 at Epsom which is low and a good eight or ten pounds below his Derby winning form. Either he isn’t the same horse or conditions weren’t right for him. One or two may just be right, it could be that he’s a stayer and therefore needs much further. He made the running today but always seemed to be near enough full speed which again would tend to indicate that he needs further.
Quote: from stevedvg on 4:03 pm on June 20, 2007[br]really being shown up for the lucky horse he was at this stage, do the decent thing and retire for god sake
It’s good that they’ve kept running him.
It’s shown that he’s not really a G1 horse and, hopefully, will mean that top quality mares aren’t sent his way.
Steve<br>
But stevo, Didnt the horse run plenty of times before his lucky Derby win…..and was he a group 1 horse?
Of course he was. Unless he luckily won the Dewhurst and finished second in a guineas when he really should have finished a well beaten last in both?
I have no strong reason to argue one way or the other about last years derby only to say that it was entertaining to watch. Im perfectly willing to listen to the time experts declare it a bit of a shambles that was actually won by horse that probably wouldnt stay 12f in there opinion. T
hat fact remains that he was a group 1 horse being that Group 1 horses are by definition horses that are competitive at group 1. I think we can safely say..he has been.
SHL
Could be argued that he was lucky at two. His Goodwood win came in a bog which didn’t suit Aussie Rules and also wouldn’t have suited all his rivals and Horatio Nelson didn’t have the best of runs in the Dewhurst did he?
(Edited by aidanldrebin at 8:21 pm on June 20, 2007)
- Total Posts 17716
….and even luckier to finish 2nd in the Guineas and win the Derby. Maybe his rabbit’s foot went missing afterwards?:biggrin:
His run in the 2000 Guineas was the best of his career. The Derby has been shown up to be not the best. I think its shown that he isn’t the real deal.
Disagree about the Dewhurst, Horatio was checked in his run but arguably Sir Percy lost as much ground coming down the wide outside. It would of been interesting to see George run that day even with the G to S as he was took out that morning.
I came to the conclusion that the Derby has took the life outta Sir Percy or he hasnt trained on as a 4yo. He beat Dylan at Epsom and Dylan has went on to win 3 Group 1s.
What he did in the Derby and before is pretty meaningless – fact is in his last 4 runs, apart from a short-lived effort in Dubai, he has never looked like landing a blow. As Willoughby might say: he saw the dark side in the Derby, and he’s not going back any time soon.
You only have to look at Visindar, the French wonder horse in the 2006 Derby. Beaten hollow by Numide in a minor conditions event recently, followed up by Numide being humbled in a Group 3 afterwards. I can see little reason for opposing the view that the 2006 Derby was the worst in living history.
The thing is though Sir Percy is currently running over half a stone BELOW his Derby winning form. There’s something wrong somewhere. Hay may not have mproved as a horse but its still the same horse I can’t believe he’s actually got worse at the grand old age of 4.
But stevo, Didnt the horse run plenty of times before his lucky Derby win
Yes, he ran a number of times.
and was he a group 1 horse?
If you define a group 1 horse as one that would deservedly win a group 1 race, I would say "no".
Unless he luckily won the Dewhurst
Which he did.
and finished second in a guineas when he really should have finished a well beaten last in both?
He was well beaten in the guineas. The race was over well before the line.
Maybe you’d like to watch the race again and tell us at which point it’s obvious he can’t win?
(to the nearest furlong)
Im perfectly willing to listen to the time experts declare it a bit of a shambles that was actually won by horse that probably wouldnt stay 12f in there opinion
Wasn’t the reason the Derby was regarded as poor form down to the number and quality of the horses that were involved in a blanket finish?
In particular, Sir Percy performance was only a short head better than a horse that lost every one of his 8 races.
fact remains that he was a group 1 horse being that Group 1 horses are by definition horses that are competitive at group 1.
Well, that’s your definition.
IMO, he’s not a g1 horse because he should never have won a group 1.
If I remember rightly, his highest ever RPR was 121. <br>Seems a bit on the low side for a proper G1 horse who’s run so many times.
Steve
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Stevedg
Yep; that’s a really objective view.<br>Write him down because, for whatever reason, Dragon Dancer never ran to the same mark again, meanwhile conveniently ignore the whole host of subsequent gp1 & gp2 winners that he also beat in the same race.<br>Pure unbiased genius!:biggrin:
Yep; that’s a really objective view.<br>Write him down because, for whatever reason, Dragon Dancer never ran to the same mark again, meanwhile conveniently ignore the whole host of subsequent gp1 & gp2 winners that he also beat in the same race.<br>Pure unbiased genius
I was predicting the derby form wouldn’t work out immediately after the race.
I was also saying that I didn’t expect SP to win another G1.
What were you saying at the time?
Who’s predictions were more accurate?
Finally, the whole point about "a race not working out" means that a horse can finish ahead of better horses.
So, it’s perfectly reasonable to believe that Dylan Thomas winning the Irish Derby etc doesn’t elevate the 2006 English Derby form.
Steve
Quote: from Flash on 3:55 pm on June 20, 2007[br]I think it might be worth retiring this horse. It’s sad to see him running like that. He had problem after problem last season and he clearly hasn’t recovered from that. <br>
I thought the same, just after he crossed the line, he owes no one nothing…. but is he really worth anything for stud?
Funny Steve. You’re anti-racist, a bit left wing, a bit trendy, a bit open minded and yet your assassination of Sir Percy and his supporters has never once relented in all my time on the board.
Indeed, you’ve hardly posted for a few weeks and as soon as the little horse loses in a big race, you appear with your mixture of assault, bias, subjectivity, sneaky arguing technique and…
If you define a group 1 horse as one that would deservedly win a group 1 race, I would say "no".
…magical thinking. He won two Steve, btw. In the form book. You can’t just unwish it because it doesn’t suit your argument.
Let me just mention that your comment about mares etc was perhaps the most offensive post I have read on this board, btw. It was very well structured and well thought out and it succeeded in offending. Congratulations.
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