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Long Run would’ve won the National if it hadn’t been for SWC

Home Forums Horse Racing Long Run would’ve won the National if it hadn’t been for SWC

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  • #25834
    Avatar photobetlarge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2806

    Thought I’d start early. :roll:

    Mike

    #473794
    homersimpson
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3210

    Agree. LR would have won 15 lengths if BG had been in the plate. The way he took him into that fence gave the horse no hope (nothing to do with LR’s dodgy jumping :wink: ). The sooner NH and his dad realise this the better. The horse could have been another Arkle if not for the jockey. Blatant nepotism :roll:

    #473795
    Avatar photophil walker
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1374

    SWC has an amazing win record over the National fences so I wouldn’t go writing Long Run off just yet

    #473796
    Avatar photoricky lake
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 3003

    This made me laugh …best get bthe moans in now Mike …Ginger will be along later to preach his wisdom …… :P

    imo

    #473797
    eddie case
    Member
    • Total Posts 1214

    Don’t know if it would’ve won but I might have backed it with AP aboard.

    #473809
    obiwankenobi
    Participant
    • Total Posts 349

    At least LR isn’t 13 years old! We had the big front page for a failed Big Bucks and now we have a front page Racing Post for Tidal Bay. Lets hope they are right this time.

    #473811
    Avatar photoivanjica
    Participant
    • Total Posts 817

    SWC’s record around the National fences is actually really good. Long Run has a tendency to clout one and may not get away with it around the National fences.

    His profile coming into it reminds me of The Fellow (9yo former GC winner with multiple GCs under his belt). The Fellow was cantering when he fell at the Canal Turn in 1994 and I think Long Run’s unusual course this year has been all about one race. SWC may yet have his biggest day.

    #473821
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 6337

    Timeform’s recent analysis of the effectiveness of current riders over GN fences is here:
    https://www.timeform.com/Racing/Article … s_the_best

    And an extract from it . . .

    Let’s get the caveats in first. Any measure taken over the National course, which is used just five times every season, is always going to be susceptible to the vagaries of the small sample size. Also, one of the five races, the Fox Hunter, is restricted to amateur riders. In this sphere Waley-Cohen unsurprisingly excels (no other amateur is in the top 30), though maybe not by as far as you’d think: he notched up two wins and a second with Katarino, but either side of that double act his record has been unspectacular.

    These points of mitigation are one thing, but take another look at the table. This is no bunched finish and Waley-Cohen no Lord Windermere: he and Walsh are pair-clear in their records over the spruce. Walsh gets the plaudits he deserves for his excellent Aintree record. Waley-Cohen doesn’t.

    Moreover, injury is going to force Walsh out of this year’s race. Were Waley-Cohen not booked for a ride and Walsh 4 lb ahead of anyone else, most would shrug and deem it fair enough; no trees uprooted, no wheel reinvented. As it is, Walsh will be absent and Waley-Cohen is 6 lb clear. He’s an outlier that shouldn’t be discarded given what Timeform’s jockey ratings have served up already.

    #473822
    Avatar photocormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9336

    I quite like Long Run in this but I do worry about SWC’s tendency to (IMO) be too handy and go for home too early (Rajdhani Express at festival latest example).

    But he has decent record at Aintree where those tactics suit better (over national course) and if the horse ‘takes to it’ he surely has a live chance.

    #473823
    Avatar photoThe Ante-Post King
    Participant
    • Total Posts 8697

    Nice one Mike.The build up to the National always attracts our friends and family to pose the famous question to those of us who spend 364 other days studying horseracing as to "Who’s going to win"? Well I’ve been tipping

    Long Run

    to all those pin stickers who take me seriously as his form is way ahead of the whole field and at 14/1 he is over-priced.That of course might just have something to do with Sam Waley Cohen in the saddle.I cant believe he’s twice the price of ‘Teaforthree’ a horse who couldn’t win a Gold cup if he started now.Those who rate themselves judges however have been blessed with the 33/1 about

    Burton Ports

    chances from myself as he too has met proper Gold cup horses off levels in his day and is very well handicapped on ‘Long Runs’Gold cup form alone.I personally hope Sam rides his horse like he knows how and if he jumps the last in touch he’s the one to beat.I also think that being a 13yo is a bigger handicap to

    Tidal bay

    than having Sam on board ‘Long Run’.He could yet go off fav and should be imo.

    #473824
    Avatar photoAdmiralofthefleet
    Member
    • Total Posts 447

    I would be extremely surprised if Long Run’s jumping is good enough to win this.

    #473829
    eddie case
    Member
    • Total Posts 1214

    Timeform’s recent analysis of the effectiveness of current riders over GN fences is here:
    https://www.timeform.com/Racing/Article … s_the_best

    And an extract from it . . .

    Let’s get the caveats in first. Any measure taken over the National course, which is used just five times every season, is always going to be susceptible to the vagaries of the small sample size. Also, one of the five races, the Fox Hunter, is restricted to amateur riders. In this sphere Waley-Cohen unsurprisingly excels (no other amateur is in the top 30), though maybe not by as far as you’d think: he notched up two wins and a second with Katarino, but either side of that double act his record has been unspectacular.

    These points of mitigation are one thing, but take another look at the table. This is no bunched finish and Waley-Cohen no Lord Windermere: he and Walsh are pair-clear in their records over the spruce. Walsh gets the plaudits he deserves for his excellent Aintree record. Waley-Cohen doesn’t.

    Moreover, injury is going to force Walsh out of this year’s race. Were Waley-Cohen not booked for a ride and Walsh 4 lb ahead of anyone else, most would shrug and deem it fair enough; no trees uprooted, no wheel reinvented. As it is, Walsh will be absent and Waley-Cohen is 6 lb clear. He’s an outlier that shouldn’t be discarded given what Timeform’s jockey ratings have served up already.

    Do these stats/ratings take into account the much softer fences since last year? That could be significant. I’ve a feeling Waley-Cohen will do nowhere near as well as he has done previously now the fences are softer.

    #473830
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6337

    Timeform’s recent analysis of the effectiveness of current riders over GN fences is here:
    https://www.timeform.com/Racing/Article … s_the_best

    And an extract from it . . .

    Let’s get the caveats in first. Any measure taken over the National course, which is used just five times every season, is always going to be susceptible to the vagaries of the small sample size. Also, one of the five races, the Fox Hunter, is restricted to amateur riders. In this sphere Waley-Cohen unsurprisingly excels (no other amateur is in the top 30), though maybe not by as far as you’d think: he notched up two wins and a second with Katarino, but either side of that double act his record has been unspectacular.

    These points of mitigation are one thing, but take another look at the table. This is no bunched finish and Waley-Cohen no Lord Windermere: he and Walsh are pair-clear in their records over the spruce. Walsh gets the plaudits he deserves for his excellent Aintree record. Waley-Cohen doesn’t.

    Moreover, injury is going to force Walsh out of this year’s race. Were Waley-Cohen not booked for a ride and Walsh 4 lb ahead of anyone else, most would shrug and deem it fair enough; no trees uprooted, no wheel reinvented. As it is, Walsh will be absent and Waley-Cohen is 6 lb clear. He’s an outlier that shouldn’t be discarded given what Timeform’s jockey ratings have served up already.

    Do these stats/ratings take into account the much softer fences since last year? That could be significant. I’ve a feeling Waley-Cohen will do nowhere near as well as he has done previously now the fences are softer.

    I don’t know. From memory. I believe his stats are very strong over the ‘old’ fences

    #473839
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8241

    I think Long Run at as low as 10/1 is a joke price. I don’t believe the horse has retained anything like his old form and a win at 2/5 in a four horse affair round Kelso is a million miles away from what he will face on Saturday.

    Tea For Three at 8/1 is nonsense as well. He is a one paced plodder and must be about the poorest favourite I have seen in many a year.

    The usual rip off prices will prevail on Saturday as the once a year punters have no clue they are getting the eyes ripped out of them.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #474182
    Avatar photoThe Ante-Post King
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    • Total Posts 8697

    I think Long Run at as low as 10/1 is a joke price. I don’t believe the horse has retained anything like his old form and a win at 2/5 in a four horse affair round Kelso is a million miles away from what he will face on Saturday.

    Tea For Three at 8/1 is nonsense as well. He is a one paced plodder and must be about the poorest favourite I have seen in many a year.

    #474186
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8241

    I think Long Run at as low as 10/1 is a joke price. I don’t believe the horse has retained anything like his old form and a win at 2/5 in a four horse affair round Kelso is a million miles away from what he will face on Saturday.

    Tea For Three at 8/1 is nonsense as well. He is a one paced plodder and must be about the poorest favourite I have seen in many a year.

    Good luck with Long Run Gord but I much prefer Tidal Bay of the class horses. I may be way wrong but I just feel Long Run isn’t in love with the game the same way now. Nicky Henderson has never trained the winner either and that’s a fair monkey to carry on your back for such a long time given the horses that go through your hands year in year out. Have a good one!

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #474198
    Avatar photoyeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3698

    Nicky Henderson has never trained the winner either and that’s a fair monkey to carry on your back for such a long time given the horses that go through your hands year in year out.

    Can’t see the trainer being a negative, Paul Nicholls had never won it till he did :D

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