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Why have Godolphin scratched Gladiatorus from this race? Has he suffered a setback? Already?
..and why has John Gosden removed Pipedreamer? Is he still labouring under the delusion that this horse wants 10 furlongs? Big mistake – the race is there for the taking this year.
To be fair to Godolphin, either Crisford or Bin Suroor (can’t remember which) said a little while ago that Gladiatorus’s participation in the Lockinge was only a possibility – dependent on his acclimatisation coming back from Dubai. I don’t think this means anything dire – fervently hope not. Gladiatorus could be an exciting addition to the British/Irish UK summer scene.
Still, the Lockinge looks much poorer without him. Paco Boy, Aqlaam – and then what?
What can beat Paco Boy if conditions suit? Nothing IMO. What price would you take now?
- Total Posts 17716
As gp1’s go, the Lockinge would be well down the pecking order in terms of prestige, and as Gladiatorus has already won a better race, there would be little to gain from his participation. No doubt Paco Boy runs here because if he is ever to win a gp1 at a mile, this probably represents his best chance – before the proper milers come out to play.
Pipedreamer probably doesn’t run because he’s a 10 furlong horse, a distance he’ll struggle to improve on the soft gp2 he won at York last year, and would have no chance of bettering over a mile. He tired at Sandown last Saturday, which is unsurprising for a gp2 winning entire having his first race of the season, in a gp3 contest that was meaningless to his CV.
All imvho, of course.
It does look a poor Lockinge, but it looks a poor year for older milers.
Apart from Goldikova and Gladiatorus who else could run?
Archipenko? He ran 6th to Presvis.
Pressing would be capable of winning a poor Group 1 but may well go to Italy instead.
Paco Boy and Aqlaam are the obvious ones, disappointed Pipedreamer does not run. Think his performance last time that he barely gets ten furlongs. If they want to win a Group 1 with him they need to go back in trip. The older division is nowhere near as competitive as the older 10 furlong group.
The only other one I can see improving in to a Group 1 animal is Stimulation.
Cesare is getting old, Arabian Gleam does not get home and neither does Tariq. Rio De La Plata did not quite look good enough last term.
Mark
Value Is EverythingOkay you know I don’t usually complain about jockeys and things like that, so I hope you’ll forgive me if I do it just once.
I got a job just under a year ago, and to celebrate, I put a bet on Tariq in the Lockinge.
Now if it is a slow pace, why can’t a hold up horse be held up at the front instead of at the back?
I got even more annoyed with Fortune when he tried to give Henrythenavigator a 3 length headstart on Raven’s Pass in the St James’s Palace Stakes, and then tried to outsprint him. Didn’t think much of it as a strategy.
I know my racereading skills are crap and my knowledge of horses negligible, but for once I’ve just got to rant.
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Ginger
Pipedreamer obviously does get 10f, (in a 14 race career, he has only raced twice over less than 9), as Fist pointed out elsewhere he just wasn’t fully fit for last week’s race, nor would you expect him to be.
In both his previous races over the same c/d – one on slower ground, and the other at a faster pace, both when race-fit – he was putting in his best work at the end of the race, which indicates (along with most of his other form) that fitness was his problem, rather than stamina.
Although trainers do make mistakes, John Gosden is nobody’s duck-egg, particularly with a horse he has had in his stable for 4 years, and raced so many times.
If Pipedreamer’s a miler, I’ll take up value punting.
Ginger
Pipedreamer obviously does get 10f, (in a 14 race career, he has only raced twice over less than 9), as Fist pointed out elsewhere he just wasn’t fully fit for last week’s race, nor would you expect him to be.
In both his previous races over the same c/d – one on slower ground, and the other at a faster pace, both when race-fit – he was putting in his best work at the end of the race, which indicates (along with most of his other form) that fitness was his problem, rather than stamina.
Although trainers do make mistakes, John Gosden is nobody’s duck-egg, particularly with a horse he has had in his stable for 4 years, and raced so many times.
If Pipedreamer’s a miler, I’ll take up value punting.Reet,
Pipedreamer stays 10f but only just. I don’t see him as "putting in his best work at the end of the race" at all. In most if not all of his races at 10f he has been travelling better two out than most of his rivals. Some of which went on to beat him.
In my opinion, if he is to show better form than he has to date; he needs to go down in trip to a mile and be ridden prominently / secure a good pace.
I am certainly not the only one who believes this. Steve Mellish for one.
Trainers do get it wrong sometimes, though it may be more to do with his owners / owners racing manager. Of course last year they were right to try 10f, particularly when they had another horse (Cesare) challenging for top honours at a mile. But he barely stays the trip and will probably do better going back in trip. They should at least try it.
Mark
Value Is EverythingGinger
Pipedreamer obviously does get 10f, (in a 14 race career, he has only raced twice over less than 9), as Fist pointed out elsewhere he just wasn’t fully fit for last week’s race, nor would you expect him to be.
If Pipedreamer’s a miler, I’ll take up value punting.
Pipedreamer "gets" 10f in the same way that Paco Boy "gets" a mile, but everything about his racing style suggests he would be more effective at a mile. I confess this isn’t an original thought – Tom Segal and James Willoughby have been saying it for months…
The other point is that the Lockinge is such a weak race – the opposition will be significantly weaker than he woud face in the 10f division.
and –
If Pipedreamer’s a miler, I’ll take up value punting
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What can you say to that? You’ll start restricting your betting to horses at decent prices if Gosden sees the light. Sounds like a win-win situation…
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TDK
I suppose it depends on what ‘value’ you place on Willo’ and Segal’s understanding of the form book, as against what ‘value’ you place on John Gosden knowing his horses?
Just as intriguing is the reduction of the original Coolmore entry to only two, both of whom normally serve as pacemakers for higher rated stable companions.
They are Red Rock Canyon and Windsor Palace – is there some scheme afoot to get Red Rock Canyon to break his maiden by winning a Group 1?
Or are Coolmore coping with the credit crunch by hiring out pacemakers to other yards?
Coolmore may re-enter something at the supplementary stage on 11-May though to get an easy Group 1 (assuming it is not a genuine target for RRC) so no-bet for me until then anyway.
- Total Posts 17716
Ginger
Pipedreamer obviously does get 10f, (in a 14 race career, he has only raced twice over less than 9), as Fist pointed out elsewhere he just wasn’t fully fit for last week’s race, nor would you expect him to be.
In both his previous races over the same c/d – one on slower ground, and the other at a faster pace, both when race-fit – he was putting in his best work at the end of the race, which indicates (along with most of his other form) that fitness was his problem, rather than stamina.
Although trainers do make mistakes, John Gosden is nobody’s duck-egg, particularly with a horse he has had in his stable for 4 years, and raced so many times.
If Pipedreamer’s a miler, I’ll take up value punting.Reet,
Pipedreamer stays 10f but only just. I don’t see him as "putting in his best work at the end of the race" at all. In most if not all of his races at 10f he has been travelling better two out than most of his rivals. Some of which went on to beat him.
In my opinion, if he is to show better form than he has to date; he needs to go down in trip to a mile and be ridden prominently / secure a good pace.
I am certainly not the only one who believes this. Steve Mellish for one.
Trainers do get it wrong sometimes, though it may be more to do with his owners / owners racing manager. Of course last year they were right to try 10f, particularly when they had another horse (Cesare) challenging for top honours at a mile. But he barely stays the trip and will probably do better going back in trip. They should at least try it.
Mark
Now Now guys that’s my favorite flat horse you are talking about.
If I seem to be disagreeing with you Ginge it’s because I am. Pipedreamer gets every yard of 10 furlongs wha the does lack is that little bit of extra class to compete at the very highest level and win. I do expect that to change this year as John Gosden has always thought do better as a five year old.He will definately not run him over a mile as the last time he did it was blatantly obvious to him that he needed further. He was expected to hack up in his last race over a mile and he won by the skin of his teeth.
I have no idea where you get this idea from. If anything when he ran in the Eclipse he could have done with another 1/2 furlong and would have probably won if the race had been that tad further.
It simply isn’t going to happen mate.
TDK
I suppose it depends on what ‘value’ you place on Willo’ and Segal’s understanding of the form book, as against what ‘value’ you place on John Gosden knowing his horses?
Well, I am not solely relying on their judgement – I think the way the horse travels in his races strongly suggests he would be effective at shorter. The last time he tried it was two years ago and he clearly hadn’t developed into the horse he is today.
As for Gosden knowing his horses – what trip was he running Les Arcs over when it was in his care?
If I seem to be disagreeing with you Ginge it’s because I am. Pipedreamer gets every yard of 10 furlongs wha the does lack is that little bit of extra class to compete at the very highest level and win. I do expect that to change this year as John Gosden has always thought do better as a five year old.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.