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…Horse racing competes with other sports for public attention, TV and press. The flat racing part of the sport haemorrhages it’s stars and potential stars every year, and it doesn’t help.
In the ROA magazine this month John Gosden expresses the opinion that flat racing is on the brink of major decline. One of the reasons being that racing is not promoted as a sport with its stars, the horses, given exposure in the popular press and TV. The concentration on betting and centuries old traditions does not attract a younger audience. How can the stars and the clashes of the giants be promoted when they’re here today, gone tomorrow.
Spot on.
Blackheath,
You are again giving an unfair comparison. Horses mature at a far faster rate than humans. If you look at the Timeform weight for age table. In early January a four year old should give 15lbs to a three year old. Yet within a year the two are equal. You are comparing an 18 year old human with say a 22 year old. An 18 year old human is / is almost fully formed. There should not be too much between the two. If you were comparing a 15 year old with a 22 year old, then I would agree. Which is why there are youth athletics championships. But humans are humans, horses are horses. Should equine sprinters run in lanes? It’s crazy to compare.Value Is EverythingI too would love Sea The Stars to race on at four. What do you think of my suggestion? We must come up with something that might work. Doing away with allowances would just mean age groups being kept apart. Connections will not take part in unfair races, which they have no chance of winning. Less competitive and boring racing. There’d soon be an outcry, wanting three year olds to race against their elders. The only way that can happen is with an allowance.
Value Is EverythingHorses mature at a far faster rate than humans. If you look at the Timeform weight for age table. In early January a four year old should give 15lbs to a three year old. Yet within a year the two are equal. You are comparing an 18 year old human with say a 22 year old. An 18 year old human is / is almost fully formed. There should not be too much between the two. If you were comparing a 15 year old with a 22 year old, then I would agree. Which is why there are youth athletics championships. But humans are humans, horses are horses.
You’re right to point out that a linear comparison in ‘maturity’ between humans and horses is folly even if you use the very rough-and-ready approximation that 1 equine year = 5 human years.
Humans, horses, cats, dogs etc etc develop at different rates and with variable rates of precocity evident in the various physical attributes
However to suggest that an 18yo human is "is/almost fully formed" and is on a par physically with one in his/her 20s is equally erroneous.
An 18yo may have reached full height, but in general will continue to ‘fill out’ well into his/her 20s i.e continue to develop physical strength and – in particular – increased stamina.
There is a difference between the sexes with girls/women generally reaching ‘full’ maturity before boys/men: witness the teenage tennis player.
Very roughly, strength and stamina continue to develop upto around the age of 30 whilst speed and agility start to wane: witness the professional footballer
Naturally there are many examples of human strength/stamina precocity:
As someone once remarked when the still-teenage 18st Jonah Lomu was knocking over the opposition ‘he’ll be a big lad when he grows up’
- Total Posts 17716
In the ROA magazine this month John Gosden expresses the opinion that flat racing is on the brink of major decline. One of the reasons being that racing is not promoted as a sport with its stars, the horses, given exposure in the popular press and TV. The concentration on betting and centuries old traditions does not attract a younger audience. How can the stars and the clashes of the giants be promoted when they’re here today, gone tomorrow.
John Gosden’s ideas concerning promotion of the sport have to be read in the context of his formative (and highly successful) American years. He was there at a time when media hype, the pumping-up and pulling down of stars equine and human, still worked.
It doesn’t now, or not to anything like the same degree, given the satellite TV diaspora which has resulted in all sports hiving off to specialist channels and the disappearance of many of them from terrestrial schedules. Which is why North American racing really
is
a parlous state. And which is why the last thing we should do is ape its failing marketing strategies.
British racing is troubled by the global financial crisis, and by the weakness of the pound sterling. Although it’s diluted by bookmaker-driven inflation of cards, it’s certainly in a far healthier state than it was 20 years ago, both as a business and as a sport.
Mr Gosden may feel
he
is on the brink of a major decline, but that’s ambitious trainers for you. They are driven by the fear of failure as much as the prospect of further success.
Horses mature at a far faster rate than humans. If you look at the Timeform weight for age table. In early January a four year old should give 15lbs to a three year old. Yet within a year the two are equal. You are comparing an 18 year old human with say a 22 year old. An 18 year old human is / is almost fully formed. There should not be too much between the two. If you were comparing a 15 year old with a 22 year old, then I would agree. Which is why there are youth athletics championships. But humans are humans, horses are horses.
You’re right to point out that a linear comparison in ‘maturity’ between humans and horses is folly even if you use the very rough-and-ready approximation that 1 equine year = 5 human years.
Humans, horses, cats, dogs etc etc develop at different rates and with variable rates of precocity evident in the various physical attributes
However to suggest that an 18yo human is "is/almost fully formed" and is on a par physically with one in his/her 20s is equally erroneous.
An 18yo may have reached full height, but in general will continue to ‘fill out’ well into his/her 20s i.e continue to develop physical strength and – in particular – increased stamina.
There is a difference between the sexes with girls/women generally reaching ‘full’ maturity before boys/men: witness the teenage tennis player.
Very roughly, strength and stamina continue to develop upto around the age of 30 whilst speed and agility start to wane: witness the professional footballer
Naturally there are many examples of human strength/stamina precocity:
As someone once remarked when the still-teenage 18st Jonah Lomu was knocking over the opposition ‘he’ll be a big lad when he grows up’
Well thought out arguement as ever Drone.
This particular comparison though was with male 100 metre sprinters, so stamina is not an issue there. Fully accept stamina is increased with age (in the horse as well as human). Physically, there may be a general "filling out" of a normal human. But I’d say an 18 year old male 100m sprinter is / is almost fully formed, like Jonah Lomu.
I concede an 18 year old 5000 metres runner will not be as good as a 26 year old 5000 metres runner.
Which is why comparing different sports is impossible.
Value Is EverythingStill say level weights for King George, Arc, or any all aged Group 1 won’t work.
It will be anti-competitive, ensuring no 3 year olds turn up. With those races poorer for it.
In my opinion, only way to encourage top three year olds to race on at four is to increase prize money. This can be done with bonuses. Can anyone see why bonuses won’t work?
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Simple answer?
Make all the Classics plus other major gp1’s for 4yo+ only – then see how many retire at 3.Simple answer?
Make all the Classics plus other major gp1’s for 4yo+ only – then see how many retire at 3.Not as simple as you might think Reet.
What do you do with two and three year old races Reet?
Today three year olds already find it difficult to get in to all aged handicaps. Now you stop them running in Classics and major Group 1’s.
In my opinion such a big change will certainly have a big change to how connections place their horses. Doing it your way nobody will want to race at two. Three year old races become todays two year old season. So all you are doing is scrapping two year old races. Nothing else changes, so in effect nothing will change. Two year olds become three, three becomes four year olds. You are just asking owners to keep their horses doing nothing for longer.
Value Is EverythingJust leave it as it is for feck sake. Even if Sea The Stars ran till he was ten the people who promote the sport would still find a way to balls it up. You cant even watch his complete portfolio of races online without signing up, logging in and getting your credit card out. What way is that to encourage newcomers to the sport?
Good piece from Brough Scott. I think his comments which form the title of this thread are taken out of context. The video was more a review and analysis of the horse and a general acceptance that stud is what happens to the vast majority of top 3yo entire racehorses.
I look forward to the book at Christmas.
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There’s few people I respect more in racing than Brough Scott the man has seen it all and done it all but let’s face it he must have been drunk or smoking some oriental weed to have come away with this one………I think the Journalist "let’s get controversial and draw some attention" Daemon raised it ugly head here.
Level Weights in the Arc would absolutely destroy the race.
There’s a very true saying:- the lack of wait won’t make a bad horse go faster but the addition of weight will stop a good one.
Sea the Stars was flat to the boards to win the Arc, some say he’s the best they have ever seen but if he had carried 9 stone 5lbs would he have still beaten Youmzain and Conduit despite being a superior animal?
8lbs for 2 lengths in anyone’s book can make a world of difference and how many 3 year olds would actually run in the Arc if they had to take on their seniors at levels?
A few examples would San San a 3yo the 1972 winner have stood a chance against the previous years winner Mill Reef at levels if he had raced at 4?
Or Bon Mot against Sea Bird II?
Or Trempolino against Dancing Brave?
Or Helissio against Lamtarra ?
If Zarkava had stayed in training and trained John Oxx wouldn’t have sent Sea the Stars within a mile of her if she was getting weight instead of giving it.
Nutty idea if ever there was one
Don’t think it’s an idea with any particular merit, if 3yo’s such as Sea The Stars were unfairly encouraged to be kept in training maybe it would encourage owners of other 3yo’s not so good to be sold or raced abroad rather than kept in training here and prosper when older, particularly with our ever decreasing prize money, eg Pilsudski, Singspiel, Opera House etc.
While a series of one horse uncompetive races for the likes Sea The Stars may be attractive to some, others may not agree.
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