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Agree with all of that Joncol – don’t think you should apply the same rules to amateurs as you do conditionals.
Should a rider be banned for 28 days when that will be 6 months of races he/she is likely to ride in?
A pro jockey would be banned for a month only in the same circumstances.
Another question would be should we be applying the same standards to amateurs as pro’s? These guys/girls aren’t paid and do this maybe once or twice a month on a proper racecourse (some ride in points and the like but in this case AFAIK Laura Probert doesn’t).
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David Probert’s comments were particularly interesting:
http://www.free-press-release.com/news-i-used-to-beat-david-probert-and-it-made-him-cry-1272656925.html
The stewards made the right decision here, the real problem is the setup of amatuer races not the decision they made.
Spot on, Joncol … as someone else has stated, if an amateur is racing against pros to maybe take advantage of an allowance it’s very different to riding against a bunch of amateurs of hugely varying ability and experience … amateur races purely to provide experience without any betting is a great idea, but it will never happen …
David Probert’s comments were particularly interesting:
http://www.free-press-release.com/news-i-used-to-beat-david-probert-and-it-made-him-cry-1272656925.html
Hmmm … "she’s such a strong rider" … thanks for that bruv, love ya loads
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Agree with all of that Joncol – don’t think you should apply the same rules to amateurs as you do conditionals.
Should a rider be banned for 28 days when that will be 6 months of races he/she is likely to ride in?
A pro jockey would be banned for a month only in the same circumstances.
Another question would be should we be applying the same standards to amateurs as pro’s? These guys/girls aren’t paid and do this maybe once or twice a month on a proper racecourse (some ride in points and the like but in this case AFAIK Laura Probert doesn’t).
I would rather a different set of rules for amateurs and pros.
Amatuers need practise if they are ever to master the sport. With such long term bans they cannot gain race course experience therefore comprimising their future ability.
Not only this but when an amateur makes the step to the professional game they will know the STRICT set of rules that apply and therefore can have no arguments whatsoever when they are in breach of these.
Think of it this way a 16 year old for Man Utd youths in general doesnt play at Old Trafford in front of 70,000 people. Instead he plays in front of 30 or 40 people were mistakes although unfortunate are not criticised as they would be if in front of such a large crowd.
So why are we placing our amatuers (our version of a youth team) in the same environment as that of the senior seasoned jockeys and applying the same rules?
I have never ridden publically so can’t comment from experience (although I do ride in a charity race next Saturday!) BUT I do know that most jockeys on their debuts are completely unaware of how tired they are going to get and the vast majority suffer from "jelly legs" as soon as they get off. So Laura may well have been as exhausted as she said she was (did anyone see her get off the horse?). She had been niggling him for some way which may have sapped her strength. Agreed, it did look terrible but I do feel they have been harsh to give her 28 days – 7 days should have been sufficient and also told her to go out and run/swim some more next time to get fitter. But they are only amateurs and any punter really needs their head examined before getting stuck in to any of these races. You surely take the jockey into consideration first?
One of the most bizarre races I have ever commentated on and it was hard to work out in real time what she was or wasn’t doing.
Having seen the replay her actions don’t really seem to signal exhaustion which presumably is what the stewards felt.
The reason for the post however is that the current rules offer the stewards no discretion in the ban length. Any horse that does not win because jockey is deemed not to have ridden it out gets an automatic 28 day ban (changed after the Culhane Pontefract case).
As she is an amateur the ban only applies to flat race days when an amateur race is held which is why it takes six months for it to be completed.
Presunably the best thing she could do is turn pro and then it would be used up quicker but I think that is probably not going to be an option !
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The stewards had no choice but to ban her for 28 days.
There should be a seperate stwarding system for amatuers so that lesser bans can be applied where rules are been broken.In relation to her turning pro to escape the true extant of the ban – surely that only makes a mockery of the amatuer existance, she shouldnt have to come up with inovative ways to beat the system, the system itself should be changed.
As pointed out there most jockeys don’t realise how they will react in their first race, rather than face punishment for reacting naturally exhausted, they should be able to aclimatise to the reality’s of racing in a less competitive environment gradually building up to become a professtional.
Once again the stewards had to ban her for 28 days, any easing of the rules with comprimise future incidents i.e cases could be made for jockeys having their 2,3,4,5,6th ride of their life, jockeys returning from injury and perhaps not at riding fitness. If they bend the rules here then why not bend the rules at Newmarket today??? Where do you draw the line??? Guidelines / Rules cannot have individual opinions attached and cannot be left to interpretation , if they do they will not work.
You simply cannot bend the rules, the rules must be followed and applied but they really should change/differ the amatuer race setup so instances like this have seperate rules and therefore lesser bans can be applied.
Everywhere you look people are slating stewards for lack of consistancy in their decisions,therefore the rule must be applied.
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I have never ridden publically so can’t comment from experience (although I do ride in a charity race next Saturday!) BUT I do know that most jockeys on their debuts are completely unaware of how tired they are going to get and the vast majority suffer from "jelly legs" as soon as they get off. So Laura may well have been as exhausted as she said she was (did anyone see her get off the horse?). She had been niggling him for some way which may have sapped her strength. Agreed, it did look terrible but I do feel they have been harsh to give her 28 days – 7 days should have been sufficient and also told her to go out and run/swim some more next time to get fitter. But they are only amateurs and any punter really needs their head examined before getting stuck in to any of these races. You surely take the jockey into consideration first?
Ok so then what is the rule for future races / instances of this type.
28 days for failure to ride your horse out in a finish but 7 days if its your first race??????
I dont want to seem smart but my point is you cannot apply opinions/circumstances to rules. That may help Ms Probert in this case but will make a mockery of future instances
Whatever the issues here I’m sure Laura herself must be feeling pretty mortified this evening … personally, never having ridden anything more than a seaside donkey on Skegness beach I can’t comment on how "exhausted" she felt after an extended six furlongs … looking at the replay again it’s almost as if she "froze" when confronted with the prospect of winning the race on her first ride and just didn’t know how to react … or maybe I’m just being kind !
As for her turning pro, Richard (was that a tongue in cheek suggestion, by the way ?) … given that Laura has recently been reported as having signed a major modelling contract, it’s more likely she’ll be involved in photo shoots rather than photo finishes for the foreseeable future.
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I’m sure she is mortified.
Her dad already made comments on how nervous she was today before the race, imagine now how nervous she will feel returning to the track for her 2nd ride, hardly an encouraging / productive atmosphere for producing future jockeys.
Amatuers shouldn’t feel such pressure, and certainly shouldn’t have to suffer such lengthy bans.
They really need to look at making amatuer races a betting free race with seperate rules for stewarding therefore encouraging more jockeys to the sport and also creating a race free from punter ridicule with room to make mistakes and learn from them without backlash…
Whatever the issues here I’m sure Laura herself must be feeling pretty mortified this evening … personally, never having ridden anything more than a seaside donkey on Skegness beach I can’t comment on how "exhausted" she felt after an extended six furlongs … looking at the replay again it’s almost as if she "froze" when confronted with the prospect of winning the race on her first ride and just didn’t know how to react … or maybe I’m just being kind !
Nope, sorry, just watched it yet again and she was definitely trying to win cheekily … spot the crafty glance across to the eventual winner about 50 yards from the line … the reaction of the Racing UK presenters immediately after the race said it all …
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Whether your first ride under rules comes as a shock or not, Laura Probert’s debut was ‘a dream ten years in the making’ and having been described as ‘strong’ by her supremely talented brother I struggle to believe that she was anything approaching exhausted.
And why should the punishment for an offense of this nature be more lenient for amateurs? I can understand stewards looking favourably upon acts of careless riding whilst jockeys improve their ‘track craft’, but inexperience is no excuse for not obeying the fundamental rules of racing (namely riding out a finish).
Miss Probert’s ban is entirely appropriate; applied to the letter of the law and an eye-opener for any would-be jockey.
As an aside, Joncol, are you actually suggesting that amateurs be allowed to learn by a different set of rules to those to which they’d have to adhere as professionals? Would a professional’s first ride after graduating from amateur status be exempt from by-the-book punishment because they were having to adapt to new regulations? Perhaps you’d like to see bookings, penalties and offsides removed from youth football, the miss rule ignored for budding snooker players and a ‘ground the club in the hazard if you feel like it’ clause for junior golfers?
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Yes of course because that’s exactly what I said isn’t it. Suspect pocket talking from you I suspect
For me the debate around this is only whether the ban for such an offence (whether amateur or pro jockey) should have a discretionary ban period say 15-40 days for losing first place through not riding out rather than the current 28 or nothing.
Some like Ballinger Ridge and the Culhane Ponty horse would clearly be at the 40 end whilst others like the one Richard Quinn got away with at Newmarket (stewards not certain cost him race even though clearly stopped riding)or the Royston Fffrench at Redcar which he did get 28 days for but was marginal, especially compared to the first two mentioned.
Still having watched it again feel the exhaustion explanation doesn’t really fit but to be honest hard to comprehend what was going on, so have no real issue with the 28 days she got as it does send the right message that it we wish the sport to be seen as professional (?) but have an amateur element then those undertaking to participate need to be aware of not just the riding requirements but the fitness ones also.
Similarly there should be cautions and then bans for not pushing out hands and heels to line irrespective of whether costs a position or not as instances like the Spencer 2nd at Newcastle the other day where he just held on for second having looked over the wrong shoulder should not go unpunished just because of a millimetre the right way in a photo.
Finally a couple of little things, please I am no celeb just a lifelong fan of the sport who was lucky enough to get to work in it, and yes the pro bit was tongue in cheek Burrough, though I would have thought Laura might make a very good model especially for portraits as she can clearly sit very still.
If you’d had a good bet on that horse how furious would you be? On what should have been a great day for the jockey turned into a disaster, 28 days was not excessive imo. Surely she would have been riding to instructions but if that excuse had been given others would have been for the high jump as well.
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