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Knowing the rules.

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  • #21090
    andyod
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    When a jockey comes from Brazil to ride in England he is expected to know and abide by the rules of English racing.Similarly when an English jockey rides abroad.As they say "ignorance of the law does not excuse one".

    #393488
    Eclipse First
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    • Total Posts 1571

    He certainly doesn’t seem to have won himself many admirers. He’s probably a better bet to quit riding than win the jockey’s title as his mind set does appear rather negative.

    #393496
    Nathan HughesNathan Hughes
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    What’s he done now?

    The rules are not very strong set in stone if you keep getting off on appeal?

    Member since March 2008
    #393499
    Eclipse First
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    http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news … ml&BID=465

    He didn’t get off his previous offence, it was commuted to a fine.

    #393645
    Nathan HughesNathan Hughes
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    Thanks for the link.

    ‘failed to ride to instuctions’

    :? Is that trainers instructions?

    Member since March 2008
    #393646
    Eclipse First
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    • Total Posts 1571

    I presume it would be trainer/owner instructions. Not knowing the exact nature of the offence and rules broken therein, I suspect such rules are there to prevent dishonest practice by the jockeys who are or certainly have been a ready target for coercion.

    #393647
    Nathan HughesNathan Hughes
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    Probably a fair few grey areas. A bit harsh to assume that Richard Hughes didn’t know the rules from the op imo.

    Member since March 2008
    #393651
    Eclipse First
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    • Total Posts 1571

    Given that he struggles with his weight more than most, his days in the saddle must be drawing to a close. Whether he makes a concerted effort for the Jockey’s title this season, something which he was rather dismissive of even before the changes to the rules, remains to be seen. Missing the start of the season would probably dissuade him from an earnest pursuit.

    #393828
    andyod
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    Then he knew the rules and did not follow them.Is that not a bit harsh?

    #393840
    Nathan HughesNathan Hughes
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    I don’t know if he knows the rules or not. He may well of known the rules but their might be circumstances in a race where he hasn’t been able to follow them, ie he might have been instructed to front run but missed the break or something. Image a 10 runner race where all ten jockeys are instructed to make the running?. Or he might not of known the rules or he might have known the rules and broke them deliberately.

    I dont know.

    Do you know for sure?

    Member since March 2008
    #393855
    andyod
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    As someone(Will Rogers) once said "All I know is what I read in the newspapers".

    #395907
    andyod
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    Appeal failed, now out until end of April, unless English stewards ignore the gentlemans rule of supporting other stewards around the world.I believe they will uphold his ban.

    #398639
    KenhKenh
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    • Total Posts 738

    The ban has been upheld and he will not ride until May.

    http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-ra … 07150/top/

    #399304
    Ardross
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    • Total Posts 98

    I was pretty appalled by their reasoning yesterday but most of all by the submissions of the BHA Q.C that if Hughes had got 10 years that should be upheld too on the basis of a reciprocal agreement .

    What was wrong ?well I see it this way

    1 As the reasons revealed the Indian stewards had actually left the International Racing Agreement in 2007 as because unlike all the other signatories they deny people appearing before them legal representation. Hence , the line peddled by the BHB that they could only interfere if the proceedings had been in breach of natural justice was wrong .

    2 The Panel however upheld the ban via a backdoor route namely that the Indian authorities were however a recognised racing authority by the BHA and therefore the ban would apply unless disapplied by the BHA . It strikes me as objectionable that a foreign racing authority can back out of the standards required by the International Racing Agreement (IRA)and still have its bans enforced but so be it . What is plain , however is that the reasons for disapplying a ban are therefore at large . The Panel accepted this but then proceeded to apply an approach akin to the IRA .

    3 Hence , the Panel adopted far too narrow an approach saying that the application for the ban not to apply should be considered against the need for reciprocal arrangements to be enforced and on the basis of whether Hughes received a fair hearing . Why should the indian authorities be entitled to what in effect are the limits of the IRA when they won’t sign up to it .

    4 Hughes’ challenge was based on four points (a) that he was not allowed legal representation (b) the absence of the trainer at the appeal (c) the emphasis on the riding instructions and (d) the disproportionate penalty

    The panel found that (a) could be dismissed on the basis that Hughes had signed a waiver ( that strikes me as nonsensical – any such waiver of putting your rights to a fair hearing before your domestic authority is offensive and seeks to usurp the domestic authority’s powers ) (b) that it did not make any difference as the representative put Hughes’ points with clarity and energy . ( Frankly, that strikes me as equally specious – a trained advocate by that very training is likely to be more persuasive – that is the very reason for having the rule in this country that legal representation is appropriate

    As for the absence of the trainer – who said he was ill and then turned up saddling runners in the afternoon. This was said not to be unfair as there was no evidence from the earlier hearings that their recollection of the instructions was in dispute . This strikes me again as specious. The findings against Hughes were based on his apparent failure to rush the horse up and control it if it ran keen . Questions could clearly have been asked of the trainer to address the original panel’s findings and to deal with them . The fact the representative apparently did not think of this illustrates that a lawyer might have done

    As for the over emphasis on riding instructions as distinct from in effect the non-trier rule they said this had been carefully investigated and that the could not retry the case themselves . I think that a point should have been made but does not appear to have been that we should simply not be enforcing breaches of this rule as it reverses the burden of proof .In effect , not riding to instructions is regarded as meaning non-trying which the jockey then has to disprove . This is totally offensive to our ideas of justice . The BHA should not even have upheld a suspension based on this rule under the IRA let alone by the back door

    Finally, they held that the proper test to the penalty was perversity ( i.e no reasonable authority could have reached it ) rather than proportionality ( a proportionate response to a legitimate aim ) and held that 50 days met either test . Which in the light of the effects on a jockey’s earnings and potentially their career strikes me as quite astonishing if proportionality is the test as it should be .

    Furthermore, the effect of the Indian stewards ruling for a domestic jockey would be a 15 day ban – for a foreign jockey 50 days . This is discriminatory and the BHA at most should therefore have held that an equivalent ban should apply – either 15 days or on the 15 days when Mumbai was racing . Otherwise it has a disproportionate effect on a foreign jockey.

    I hope Hughes and his lawyers appeal to the Appeal Board which has a better record .

    #399306
    Eclipse First
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    People confuse a sports tribunal with a court of law. This is a fundamental flaw.

    The key point is did the defence provide sufficient information to prove that the original verdict was incorrect. Without submissions from the Indian Stewards whereby they had significantly altered their views I do not see how the UK Authorities could have done anything but upheld the decision.

    In agreeing to ride in India he signed up to ride to a certain set of rules,if he did not make himself fully aware of the rules then it is merely sour grapes.

    If he had taken his original medicine (for dangerous riding), he would not now be in this position so it is very hard to have any sympathy for him.

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