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If Tidal Bay doesn’t go for the KG, it’s almost certain we won’t see him over three miles this season. I think he’ll have one more run before the Ryanair (possibly the Commercial Chase or something sooner) and then the Mumm Melling at Aintree.
I think John Hales was keen to run Noland in the KG, but Paul Nicholls has suggested the horse stay at two and a half this season, with the possibility of stepping him up in trip next year. I think Howard Johnson will follow the same plan and, in the process, find out if Tidal Bay’s a Gold Cup horse.
It’s such a shame Exotic Dancer’s main target is the Lexus. He’s got about as much chance of beating Neptune Collanges as Kauto Star, but with question marks over the latters retention of ability I would’ve gone to Kempton.
This promises to be a cracking renewal. A good mix of proven, top class animals and exciting prospects who could give the big boys a run for their money.
I read yesterday that connections are keen to run War Of Attrition. We could also have two former Gold Cup winners taking each other on.
Looking forward to it!
Did I not read somewhere they were thinking of the Rowland Merrick for Tidal Bay?
I’d have thought Henderson will run either Trabolgan or Barbers Shop. He’s been mentioning Trabolgan for Saturday for a few weeks now, so I think Barbers Shop will run. (A pity about Jack The Giant.)
Also, if Hobbs Hill is a non-runner on Saturday, I’d think he’d be in the King George field as well.
It all adds to the colour.
Lets just hope it goes ahead.Oh, I forgot the question I was going to ask. For either Barbers Shop or Imperial Commander to be regarded as serious contenders for the GC, do they have to win the KG, or would a place be sufficient?
both horses could still be improving couldnt they, but if there to be serious contenders to a fully fit denman then surely they have to win?????
That is what I’m thinking.
On the Nigel Twiston-Davies modesty thing mentioned earlier in the thread, I’ve twice come across him on the RP form database comparing horses to Best Mate, and at least one of them wasn’t his. Unfortunately, for interests sake, I can’t remember which horses he was referring to. (This isn’t recent, but over the course of the past couple of years.)
I always think that the best horse in the country wins the King George but the best horse on the day wins the Gold Cup..if you look at the list of winners on Boxing Day it’s like a list of racings greatest; the Gold Cup can to throw up more surprises.
I totally agree with you Moehat, which coincidentally is why I am visiting this thread at the moment.
The question I am posing is if a fully fit Denman ran in the King George, where would he finish?
I think I am right with this fact, but when the suggestion was posed to Findlay, after the GC, of Denman taking on Kauto Star in the KG, didn’t he scoff at the notion, saying that the track doesn’t suit Denman?
That is why I regard Kauto as the true champion, because he is more versatile.
If Tidal Bay doesn’t go for the KG, it’s almost certain we won’t see him over three miles this season. I think he’ll have one more run before the Ryanair (possibly the Commercial Chase or something sooner) and then the Mumm Melling at Aintree.
Did I not read somewhere they were thinking of the Rowland Merrick for Tidal Bay?
I’m guessing the only reason Tidal Bay will miss the KG is because he hasn’t completely recovered from his Sandown effort.
The Rowland Meyrick is also held on Boxing Day, I believe. Again, I’m guessing that if HJ had the choice he’d choose Kempton, although he could be looking for an easier contest to get back to winning ways.
I’d be disappointed if connections chose Wetherby over Kempton.
I always think that the best horse in the country wins the King George but the best horse on the day wins the Gold Cup..if you look at the list of winners on Boxing Day it’s like a list of racings greatest; the Gold Cup can to throw up more surprises.
That’s an interesting thought. Since the beginning of the seventies there have been 10 horses that have won the King George more than once
Pendil, Captain Christy, Silver Buck, Wayward Lad, Desert Orchid,
The Fellow, One Man, See More Business, Kicking King & Kauto Staryet only 2 for the Gold Cup, L’Escargot & Best Mate
What conclusion can we draw form this. Is the King George easier to win or does it bring the cream to the top ? Are there more good horses at 3m2F than at 3M or is it that the Cheltenham course is a great leveller of horses abilities and favours braveness over talent ? Or could it be that certain Cheltenham type horses don’t bother with the King George because it doesn’t suit, such as Jodami or Denman. I think its a shame Denman doesn’t have a go at the King George as I think he would go close, wasn’t Burrough Hill Lad a similar strapping type who managed the Hennessy, King George and Gold Cup in the same calendar year ?
I’ve always put it down to the fact real top class horses like Pendil won there races by having the ability to travel well and show a turn of foot at the end of a race that leaves everthing in their wake. They ooze class and are more my idea of a true Champion.
The Gold Cup is more often than not won by horses who are more dependant on stamina and the Pendils of the racing world getthe buzz sapped out of them round a course which can be very gruelling and in a sense unfair
If the Gold Cup had been ran at Newbury awhich is often called the fairest course in the country manya Gold Cup winners name would not be up on the wall.
As our good friend "Himself" pointed out a few weeks ago The Cheltenham Gold Cup did not originate as a a champion’s race it was merely a trial for the Grand National.
In those days "Thee Race" was the national so many good horses started torun in the trial at Cheltenham before it became a champion ship race in it’s own right….The fact the Festival was popular prize money got better and I guess tha tis why it is the most prestegious race today……on average though more good horses have won more King George than have won the Gold Cup…..off the top of my head that is
I suppose thinking logically about it, that if Barbers Shop or Imperial Commander just have to be the best horse on the day to win the GC, then their best strategy is to miss the KG, which I think Fists wrote a couple of pages ago.
The simple answer is yes; the King George is an easier race to win than the Gold Cup.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
[quote="
That’s an interesting thought. Since the beginning of the seventies there have been 10 horses that have won the King George more than once
Pendil, Captain Christy, Silver Buck, Wayward Lad, Desert Orchid,
The Fellow, One Man, See More Business, Kicking King & Kauto Staryet only 2 for the Gold Cup, L’Escargot & Best Mate
What conclusion can we draw form this. Is the King George easier to win or does it bring the cream to the top ? Are there more good horses at 3m2F than at 3M or is it that the Cheltenham course is a great leveller of horses abilities and favours braveness over talent ? Or could it be that certain Cheltenham type horses don’t bother with the King George because it doesn’t suit, such as Jodami or Denman. I think its a shame Denman doesn’t have a go at the King George as I think he would go close, wasn’t Burrough Hill Lad a similar strapping type who managed the Hennessy, King George and Gold Cup in the same calendar year ?
aaron’ I think it proves just what a tough race the Gold Cup is to win twice. A lot of the dual KG winners you list also won a Gold Cup…7/10.
So winning both is fairly regular occurence and winning more than one KG is also frequent. The GC winners list is diluted slightly by less classy winners who took advantage of conditions or less than stellar renewals. The conditions at Kempton are always more likely to discourage (and make less probable) a similar tilt.or could it be that winning the Gold Cup takes a great deal out of a horse [bit like winning the Triumph Hurdle until recently] and perhaps they are not quite the same afterwards? I still think that Best Mate’s achievement has never been fully appreciated, and we still tend to forget that horses do not win 2 Gold Cups let alone 3.
The simple answer is yes; the King George is an easier race to win than the Gold Cup.
Hi there,
I agree the King George is an easier race to win than the Gold Cup if you are only comparing the courses.
I, personally, rate the King George as highly as the Gold Cup. I think it comes down to how you judge staying chasers. The GC is more stamina dependant as already mentioned whereas the King George attracts the faster/classier horses (it could be argued).
or could it be that winning the Gold Cup takes a great deal out of a horse [bit like winning the Triumph Hurdle until recently] and perhaps they are not quite the same afterwards? I still think that Best Mate’s achievement has never been fully appreciated, and we still tend to forget that horses do not win 2 Gold Cups let alone 3.
Definitely agree on Best Mate. It is hard enough getting to the Gold Cup each year let alone winning it 3 times back-to-back. An amazing achievement.
I’ve said many times before that the King George and Cheltenham Gold Cup respresent two entirely different challenges for a horse.
The KG is run over three miles on a flat, right-handed, sharp track in the middle of the season. The CGC is run over an extended three miles-two on an undulating, left-handed, galloping track at the end of the season. The two races couldn’t be more different.
Due to the testing nature of Cheltenham and its stiff fences, the CGC is more like a three and a half mile event, emphasized further by the fact it’s run at the end of a long and arduous season.
Sometimes, the fine line between the terms ‘three miler’ and ‘stayer’ are somewhat merged. The KG is more often than not won by a horse that possesses both speed and stamina. The CGG is primarily a stamina contest, but there’s no doubt you need a horse with some sort of engine to win the race.
One Man is a great example of just how different the two races are. He had the speed to win a Queen Mother Champion Chase, but also possessed the stamina to win a KG. However, we all have those awful memories of him ‘hitting the wall’ in two CGCs, despite travelling better than anything turning in.
Wayward Lad was before my time, but I believe his was a similar story and, although he claimed big race wins under a variety of conditions between two miles and three miles-five, the mighty Desert Orchid only just managed to win the race.
It’s a huge compliment to any horse who wins either race, but an even bigger one to those who complete the double.
For me, the King George is the most prestigious three mile contest in the calendar and is invariably won by the best three mile chaser in the country. Its Roll Of Honour is superior to that of the Cheltenham Gold Cup, in my opinion, which is a far more difficult race to win on more than one occasion, taking into consideration the afforementioned conditions of the race.
Kauto Star is going for an incredible third successive win in the KG, something I believe that only four time winner Dessie has achieved.
In my opinion, that’s equal to three CGCs. It would be an amazing feat if he achieved it.
Wayward Lad
It was heartrending. Wayward Lad looked the winner of at least two Gold Cups after jumping the last, but never quite made it up the hill.
Because of Wayward Lad’s defeat, I didn’t quite appreciate Dawn Run’s victory.
(PS, I been wasting breath talking about Barbers Shop – he no longer has an entry for the KG; I’m sure he had one a couple of weeks ago.)
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