- This topic has 256 replies, 62 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
How can you suggest YPU hasn’t stayed? Surely the cumulative effect of several mistakes is what’s caused him to fade.
PH,
I don’t think it is at all ridiculous to suggest a horse tackling 3 miles for the first time didn’t stay, especially given how he shaped after the last, and can’t help but feel your matter-of-fact suggestion otherwise is fishing to some extent. Blaming the mistakes he made earlier in the race smacks of failing to see the woods for the trees if you ask me.
Plus, why wouldn’t you credit AR with improvement given how well his novice form has stood up this season?
I didn’t say I wouldn’t. There is little doubt that yesterday represented a lifetime best from Alberta’s Run, though given how he’s shaped thus far this season I said I’d be reluctant to say he’s been able to improve a great deal. Furthermore, the novice form from last year is yet to stack up to the extent that I’d ever be inclined to compare the performance of Alberta’s Run in this year’s King George to that of runners-up Our Vic or Exotic Dancer in the previous two renewals.
The RP Ratings are presumably based on VPU and Braireus running to their official marks – 173 and 150. Which means that KS improved on his OR by 9lbs and AR by an impressive 22lbs…
So a series of mistakes (and getting knocked sidewards by a rival) won’t impact on a horse’s finishing effort? Albertas Run was the clear dominant force in that division last season, the type to make into a high-level staying chaser, and almost every one of those he beat have shown better form in handicaps this season. If you think Air Force One is a high 150 horse as his handicap form suggests, then a rating in the mid to high 160s on AB isn’t unreasonable as he laughed at AFO (and others) every time they met.
So a series of mistakes (and getting knocked sidewards by a rival) won’t impact on a horse’s finishing effort?
Of course it will. However, an equally (perhaps more) profound effect on a horse’s finishing effort will come about if he lacks the requisite stamina. To discard the latter as impossible in the case of Voy Por Ustedes is blissfully ignorant IMO.
Albertas Run was the clear dominant force in that division last season, the type to make into a high-level staying chaser, and almost every one of those he beat have shown better form in handicaps this season. If you think Air Force One is a high 150 horse as his handicap form suggests, then a rating in the mid to high 160s on AB isn’t unreasonable as he laughed at AFO (and others) every time they met.
Alberta’s Run gave his best performance last year in the Reynoldstown IMO, where although clearly beating Air Force One, hardly "laughed" at him. After that, Air Force One improved markedly to win at Punchestown and was steadily progressive on his first two starts this year. I wouldn’t dream of calling Alberta’s Run a mid to high 160s horse based on such evidence (not to mention his poor efforts early in the season), which would leave him shy of both Exotic Dancer and Our Vic regardless.
I’m starting to question your race-reading ability. You should watch the Reynoldstown again
.
A truly magnificent beast like Kauto Star doesn’t need a number to tell you how good he is, FFS – a pair of eyes and half a brain tells you he’s one in a million. We all knew how good he was before Boxing Day, but a third successive KG, coupled with two Tingle Creeks and one (possibly two) Gold Cups, will tell generations just how good he was.
Don’t disrespect this horse by allocating him a number. He is a true superstar in ability and character
Bosranic,
Its actually respecting the horse by allocating him his "Big"
number. Everything related to Horseracing is allocated numbers, whether
it be "the going" "the trip" "the odds" "the weight" "the draw" but most
importantly his Rating! Thats what frames races and seperates the good from the bad!GWILSON77
Achievement seperates the bad from the good, the good from the great and the great from the legendary.
Whether it’s a 170, 175 or 180, the number three holds greater significance.
Ratings are temporary, legendary status is permanent.
GWILSON77
Achievement seperates the bad from the good, the good from the great and the great from the legendary.
Whether it’s a 170, 175 or 180, the number three holds greater significance.
Ratings are temporary, legendary status is permanent.
So, going by your "the number three holds greater significance" rationale Bosranic, See You Then was evidently a better hurdler than Night Nurse, Sea Pigeon, Monksfield, Bula and Comedy Of Errors?
And you presumably view him as the equal of Istabraq, Persian War and Hattons Grace?
Equally, I assume you have Best Mate marked down as the greatest staying chaser since Arkle, by dint of his three Gold Cup wins?
Diplomatically put Grass!
Perhaps simple mathematics is a trifle testing for "Bosranic"!I think Bos has to see in threes otherwise he can not say Inglis Drever was…….
Mark
Value Is EverythingSo, going by your “the number three holds greater significance” rationale Bosranic, See You Then was evidently a better hurdler than Night Nurse, Sea Pigeon, Monksfield, Bula and Comedy Of Errors?
And you presumably view him as the equal of Istabraq, Persian War and Hattons Grace?
Equally, I assume you have Best Mate marked down as the greatest staying chaser since Arkle, by dint of his three Gold Cup wins?
I think you’ve taken my quote out of context, Grass. The number three holds greater significance to Kauto Star’s status. I wasn’t using it to compare him to anyone else.
Although my opinion may differ, if someone considers See You Then a better hurdler than the latter quintet I certainly wouldn’t have a problem with it. All a matter of opinion.
The same applies when comparing Best Mate to other staying chasers since Arkle.
A horse can only beat what’s put in front of it and comparing the quality of generations is always very difficult. There’s no right or wrong answer, just an opinion.
GWILSON77
I don’t need a calculator to analyse a race, my own two eyes and knowledge will suffice.
I think Bos has to see in threes otherwise he can not say Inglis Drever was…….
Mark
Was? Is a quite remarkable beast.
I think you’ve taken my quote out of context, Grass. The number three holds greater significance to Kauto Star’s status.
If I have taken it out of context, it’s because I’ve no idea what your second sentence above means.
A horse can only beat what’s put in front of it and comparing the quality of generations is always very difficult. There’s no right or wrong answer, just an opinion.
And a rating is merely an opinion expressed in lbs – this is the bit you seem to be having trouble with.
A horse can only beat what’s put in front of it and comparing the quality of generations is always very difficult. There’s no right or wrong answer, just an opinion.
And a rating is merely an opinion expressed in lbs – this is the bit you seem to be having trouble with.
No trouble there, Grass.
It appears this is one of those ‘irresistible force meets an immovable object’ scenarios where neither of us is going to give an inch.
However, I’ve got plenty of inches to spare and will happily step aside. I’m getting dizzy from going round in circles.
If you’re having trouble understanding…
Ratings = opinion
Achievements = factIt’s a fact that Kauto Star is a bona fide legend!
Fair enough, Bosranic, but it’s a ‘fact’ that Kauto Star was a bona-fide legend before his win yesterday. It didn’t need a third King George to make it so.
Just got back from Christmas with the in laws (internet free and quite liberating in some senses). Anyway I did take in Kempton and it was an excellent days racing.
For the record I was one of those who did have lots of doubts about KS continuing ability but I have to say I was wrong.
I haven’t had a chance yet to rate the race but it seems to have been the platform for lost of debate on here.
Paul Nicholls continues to delight and irritate in equal measure, there has been a noticeable and deliberate change in the Champ’s style in the last 12 months, with an adoption of what I would call a ‘Football Management’ approach when dealing with any comment, debate or criticism he is not keen on. He seems unable to differentiate between comment on his horses past achievements and speculation on their future (unknown) performances.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.