- This topic has 256 replies, 62 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Awesome!!!
I was just a tad worried when he was slightly wrong at one early on the final circuit and Ruby seemed to be niggling but like last year he appeared there absolutely cruising and the home straight was a lap of honour for the third year running!
I pray he stays right until March and hopefully we’ll get decent ground this time…
Fist,
You can not keep saying that it was Paul Nicholls greed that beat Kauto at Haydock. It is just rediculous to state that, just because he lost. Horses are not machines! They have off days. Kauto Star had not proved he was back to his best in Ireland, did not have much to beat. So it is not that surprising he did not run as well at Haydock, particularly (as it turned out) he was just starting a lul in form. And made a bad blunder 3 out.
Bring back the days of David Elsworth. Running Desert Orchid every other week. Trainers should not be afraid of their horses getting beat. It does not matter.
You say "journalists write garbage" about Kauto.
I may have missed it Fist. Did you say before the betfair that Nicholls was wrong to run the horse?
No matter how many times you say it does not make it right.
Nice to see you followed my tip anyway.
Mark
Value Is EverythingA brilliant performance by the horse – but more toy throwing from the trainer.
I sometimes think that trainers will only be happy when the National Trainers’ Federation edit every newspaper.
Some people had the temerity to suggest that Kauto Star was not the force he was. So what? It’s not as if journalists have been making comments about PN’s wife?
But hey, you can still criticise a jockey (again) after your horse has won the King George, nice touch Paul
Good to see him back to his best, Albertas Run a decent second, did you have him for a place grassy?
I left a Lay at 12 for my stake and a little bit of profit, Bulwark. Haven’t checked it yet, but presumably got matched mid-race.
Fist,
You can not keep saying that it was Paul Nicholls greed that beat Kauto at Haydock. It is just rediculous to state that, just because he lost. Horses are not machines! They have off days. Kauto Star had not proved he was back to his best in Ireland, did not have much to beat. So it is not that surprising he did not run as well at Haydock, particularly (as it turned out) he was just starting a lul in form. And made a bad blunder 3 out. ANSWER: I never said it was his greed I said it was either or and he admitted he was wrong to run the horse
Bring back the days of David Elsworth. Running Desert Orchid every other week. Trainers should not be afraid of their horses getting beat. It does not matter. ANSWER: absolute bullshit somehorse take months to recover froma hard race others will recover in a few weeks
You say "journalists write garbage" about Kauto.
ANSWER:not as much garbage as you are capable of when you get going I may have missed it Fist. Did you say before the betfair that Nicholls was wrong to run the horse? ANSWER: No! how the hell would I have known how the horse was but I was fuming when he ran the horse at Aintree and said so before the race. The horse wasout on his feet in the winners enclosure and couldhardly lift his head….Ruby said he simply wasn’t himself. Ruby said he may have left fhis race at Ascot.How many signs did dumbnuts Nichols need to have tosuggest it might bebest toput him away forthe season? You tell me Ginge if that wasn’t pure greed what is?
No matter how many times you say it does not make it right. ANSWER: You saying I’m wrong doesn’t make me wrong either does it?
Nice to see you followed my tip anyway.
ANSWER : Nice to see you have retained your sense of humour
MarkFist,
Kauto Star won his prep race for the Betfair Chase in a canter. Not excerting himself at all. He then had exactly three weeks to prepare for the race. I can understand you thinking it might come too soon, had he struggled to win. But the JNWine was flowing, effortless.
How running in the Betfair could be construed as greed is mind blowing. Even by saying "either or" you are implying it could be. It does you no good to even imply the possibility or probability of greed.
Of course different horses can take races differently. But the same horse had a harder race winning the Tingle Creek just 23 days before the King George. Does 2 days make that much difference?
It might have been a mistake running kauto Star at Liverpool after a hard race at Cheltenham 20 days before. I too thought he may not run to his best / win, but I was wrong. Entering the straight at Aintree it looked as if Nicholls was right, before the bad blunder knocked the stuffing out of him. Yet The Star went on to lose in a photo. What do you think would have happened without that mistake Fist? Had it been your decision, you would have stopped Kauto Star winning his final start. Could it be the reason for running at Aintree is that the team wanted to end 07/08 season on a high? Nothing to do with greed at all.
Had he won easily there, he might still have been given the nod (rightly imo) as the best chaser of 07/08.
No need to get stroppy with me Fist; just because my late decision not to vote for you resulted in a short head defeat to Jeremy.
Mark
Value Is EverythingA brilliant performance by Kauto Star today and an exceptional achievement in winning 3 KGs back-to-back.
Roll on the Gold Cup. There is no doubt in my mind Kauto can perform better in the Gold Cup this coming March than he did in 08 race. However, the Gold Cup belongs to Denman. It will take a monumental performance to win that race considering that the conditions and course suit Denman perfectly.
Back to Kauto though as it is his day: 3 KGs, 1 Gold Cup, 2 Tingle Creeks, 2 Betfair Chases, 10 Grade 1’s, top class from 2m-3m2f, left handed/right handed tracks, goes on almost any going…… what an exceptional horse.
You shouldreally give upon trying to tell your granny how to suck eggs Ginge but I will continue to humour you despite those silly rolling eyes that you place so sarcastically
Don’t you ever read what PN says Ginge? he told the world he hadn’t got over his race in Ireland and he wasn’t right at Haydock. I have my doubts if he was being 100% truthful about the reason he wasn’t. True or not it didn’t stop him running the horse ….for what reason would he run a horse in a competitive race like that unfit other than taking advatage of the fact that he might win a good prize? Kind of silly thing to do with the King George coming up but there you go.
I personally wouldn’t have risked him if I thought he was short and sent him straight to the King George. Ireland told us enough IMO and the chances were he could have met with another setback by running him below par in the Haydock race. The prize money is the only reason he ran him and in a sense it could be looked at as greed. Is that so hard to understand? If he sent him there thinking the horse had done enough work then boy did he get it wrong……he proved that today by beating Snoopy Loopy out of sight. Even if he had stood up he might not have won it was that close
Personally I have never doubted he would bounce back as he showed very early in his career, when he almost won after falling, that he has the heart of a lion.
The top and bottom of it is it doesn’t matter now but the situation was easy to read.
It was blatantly obvious to me he was as good as ever when I saw him win in Ireland. I was just as obvious he wasn’t totally fit at Haydock. I backed the horse twice at 6/4f or the race once before Haydock and not for peanuts I might add. After Haydock I was so confident I was right that PN sent him there undercooked I backed him again.So if I was wrong then I was wrong and it’s all luck with me, but I’d rather be lucky than good any day of the week
Top man back in the saddle, right handed, Kauto back to his best… Great stuff..
I thought I was going to get paid on Briareus but twas not to be. Good run by the horse though.
The horse is a machine, the field were not bad but it was no championship race.
Bring on Denman……
or lets see him run in the national and we shall see how good he really is.
Dont think he beat much so would only call it a good performance by Kauto. Watched it on big screen at Wincanton and will say his jump at the 2nd last was Dessie like.
Another great GC on the cards but if Denman returns to his best I can only see the same result. Always thought Kauto was better right handed and Cheltenham is a different kettle of fish
Fist,
Paul Nicholls comments after the Betfair are in hindsight. As if to say "I might not have had him right". That does not mean he deliberately ran the horse when unfit. Nicholls thought he had the horse fit and well before the race as indeed he told everyone. It’s just something trainers come out with after a high profile horse gets beat. An excuse, you have taken it completely out of context. Had the horse not made those two errors he probably would have won the race easy enough, putting up as good a performance as in the Irish race. Take a look at the results on the day and afterwards you will see a general form dip of the yard. A valid excuse for a below par effort which no trainer will use. It might be that he is a better horse right handed too but that is not proven.
Don’t give us that "I never had any doubts, blatantly obvious, easy to read" rubbish. Anyone who read your posts on the Betfair race afterwards can tell you had doubts. Both before and after the race whether Kauto Star would ever be back to his best.
You say above "Personally I never doubted he would be back…It was blatantly obvious to me he was as good as ever when I saw him in Ireland"
Now contrast that with:
In your first post on the Betfair thread was "I believe this is make or break for Kauto Star…we found out nothing" (in Ireland) "Fact remains he had 2 bad races…without any apparent reason".
Then "cantering around against no hopers" in Ireland "something you would expect him to do".
"What I don’t know is kauto Star over what was ailing him last season".
Then after the race:
"I had my doubts when I started this thread but for me that put a long nail in the coffin… I was adament all along he hasn’t been the same horse for a long time… He’s gone and until they fix the problem he won’t win anything"."On that form he should be 10/1 for the Gold Cup" (not 4/1).
You criticise Nicholls "does he ever think before he speaks". yet you take a sentence Nicholls said after the Betfair as Gospel.
Then a 180 on the same day. "6/4 could be the best value ever" (for the King George).
No, you never had any doubts at all did you Fist?
Fantacy
Mark
Value Is EverythingI’m a PN fan but I think he’s contadicted himself about KS on a number of occasions –
– before he recovered from races straight away now he needs a good break
– he used to be easy to get fit (Denman was the difficult one) now he suddenly needs loads of work
– he needs to go left handed (7 Grade Ones right-handed)
– ran him in two Tingle Creeks yet he now wont run again over 3m at Haydock because its too much of a speed test etc etc
Maybe the horse has changed with age but I’m not so sure. I still think he could finish ahead of all but Master Minded over 2m if he was in the form he was today.
They ran him at Aintree because finishing a good season with a perfomance like that in the GC was rather unsatisfactory. They hardly needed the extra 90k for god’s sake. And then they ran him at Haydock because that’s the logical place for a leading staying chaser to go these days – he’d won it twice before as well obviously. I think he would have scraped home there had he stood up so we wouldn’t be having these arguments but we’ll never know.
Mid-late 170’s perfomance today ratings wise lads?
I’ve got him running to 172+ (value for a handful of lengths more)………..but don’t tell bbobbell – he says that I should "never mind his rating".
Great stuff for KS.
TBH, though, many of us would agree that he had already achieved "greatness" before his 3rd King George?
His Tingle Creek victories have always made him stand out imho.
Zip
I’ve got him running to 172+ (value for a handful of lengths more)………..but don’t tell bbobbell – he says that I should "never mind his rating". :?
What I meant Grashopper, is to me the rating does not matter, though I appreciate that to the serious punter that it will matter a lot and I have to confess that I don’t really understand how they work and haven’t a clue about percentages either, I’ve not got that kind mind.
However if that is how you viewed the performance then that’s fine mate, no offence was intended. By Bob’s rating system (my name is actually Bob Bell) it was "Brilliant, bring on the Gold Cup" and see also another thread in the general section.
A great horse who proved a lot of doubters wrong didn’t he?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.