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If you had backed him Reet (and i didnt) would you be
a) thrilled he got so close
b) Somewhat frustrated
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Papal Bull just got there too soon IMO (as opposed to last time when he came too late). Gutted, was screaming him up the run in.
I would say that papal bull has run to his best form (ie. that when he beat red rocks in king edward VII) but no doubt he will be rated something stupid to uphold DOMs over-rating.
Willy Carson "this is a two horse race" despite youmzain not wanting firmer conditions?
Jim McGrath "One of the biggest upsets in history", yeah whatever, the plank.
Just out of interest as cant get on RP website, how much did Papal Bull beat youmzain in the king edward on same track/surface?
By 21 lengths…
and "took a false stride" on GF at Ascot….maybe he just doesnt like it there
But remeber that PB was well beaten in Voltiger by Youmzain.
I couldn’t watch the race, but listened to it, and the impressin I got was that Youmzain was taken along the outside until nearing the last stretch, then was taken on the inside and into a pocket – the exact opposite to normal procedure. I think he’d have murdered them both. Just my opinion.
Taking a wild guess I would imagine he was inferring that if Papal Bull had won at odds of 66/1 he would have become the longest priced winner since Montraval in 1957 and as such this would have constitued the "greatest upset" in the history of the race by some way.
I am sure most racing fans would have agreed with that view.
I am only guessing though.
Except that he was 14/1
What price is Youmzain for the Arc after todays race?
He was 50-1 after finishing second in the king george last year.
Should be better than he was pre-race anyways.
For all Papal Bull fans today was a disappointment, as he should really have won, but he has still got us a place at a price so we cant complain.
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Should he have won? Why didn’t he?
He just got outbattled by a very high class horse. No shame at all to just get done by a horse winning his 4th straight gp1 of the season.
Had it been just about any other horse, he would probably have prevaiiled.What price is Youmzain for the Arc after todays race?
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Do you not think he is starting to become a frustrating horse in the same way people who follow Papal Bull view that horse as being a "professinoal loser". I know he finally got his Group 1 in France, but how strong a Group 1 was that? That day Lucarno was 7.75 lengths behind and today the Gosden animal finished about 6 lengths adrift so they have run fairly close to that form and yet finished 9 lengths + behind the principles today.
To be honest I didnt fancy Youmzain on todays ground one bit so, for him to get third was a pretty good effort IMO.
The race Im thinking of now (in the hope that lucarno does set a fast clip) with regards this one is the 2006 King Edward, good-fm and a bang in form red rocks set a blistering enough pace from the front, and was swallowed up by Papal Bull, Youmzain completely failed to go on the track/surface that day, but turned the form around with cut underfoot at york some months later.
Last time out Papal Bull just couldnt get to lucarno, but this is a much more competetive race and he could be the forgotten horse.
Am gutted the ground hasnt come up in favour of Youmzain as think he would have been a worth a fair few quid, and is the smartest in this race on his best conditions.
So far this season (dubai not included)
Youmzain has been a fast finishing 2nd to Soldier Of Fortune on seasonal reappearance, after being held way too far back by hughes. (E/W 10-1)
Won the GPDSC easily enough beating Soldier Of Fortune This time. (Win @ 7-1)
Has finished third in the King George on the most unsuitable ground he could have got. (beaten @ 4-1)
I would say he’s in the form of his life this season, and going on his prices, at level stakes he’s far from a disappointment. If he was a decent e/w price for the arc (eg 20s or 25s) I would definitely give him a go.
Only saw the race and replay on the telly, but we got the impression that Youmzain was squeezed up by both Papal Bull and the horse on his inside..however I thought the race was amazing…it was a race to watch and savour. It’s horses like Papal Bull that make racing so fascinating, but perhaps not from a betting perspective……
What price is Youmzain for the Arc after todays race?
Generally 10-1.
Duke of Marmalade is best priced 7-1 with Totesport, and Papal Bull is 16-1 in places.
Darren – AngloGerman
For me PAPUL BULL got their too early but Peslier wasn`t to blame has he had to get after the horse before he decided to “pick up“.
10-1 Youmzain for the Arc is one of the worst prices I’ve seen this year- if he can beat the likes of Zarkava and Montmartre I’ll pack in the game immediately.
Surely Papal Bull has run the race of his life!!
To say the jockey has given him a bad ride is unbelievable.
9L clear of the rest of the group 1 horses on show today and some say it was a bad ride!
The only conclusion that can be drawn from that race is that "the duke" is an amazing horse and Papal Bull has thrown down the challenge of his life but was still not good enough on the day.
End of story.
A fascinating race to watch.
The best horse won. Murtagh, not the horse went to sleep when he hit the front, his facial expression as he crossed the line said it all and he was lucky he had such a superstar under him to win it comfortably in the end. Duke despite the whip being switched and been leaned in on, on the rail kept as straight as a gun barrel, put his head down and did the business like the high class 130 horse that he is.
Delighted to see the true Papal Bull today, its makes the game easier when the horses reveal themselves like that. Pelier hit him twice after entering the straight with no apparent response, it was only after he passed the tiring Ask and squeezed Youmzain and got some daylight that he responded to the whip. Cant understand why he didnt give him another crack until Duke passed him again, he seemed to be responding to them. He certainly doesnt seem to be too happy in amongst horses. A difficult betting medium for the future that Papal Bull!
Wouldnt be too hard on Youmzain, he’s better on softer and Ascot is not his track. The 9L probably flatters the front 2 a bit given Hughes habit of easing down and he took third as he liked.
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Theres nothing in this race that stands a chance with Duke Of Marmalade in my opinion bar 2 horses and they are Papal Bull and Youmzain.
First 3
Predictably criticism around of Peslier (going too soon) and Hughes (suffering interference).
Thoughts are that Papal Bull is quirky and ran a career best under a finesse rider who was riding him for the first time. He went after and alongside DoM but seemed to simply get outbattled by a top notch and versatile performer to whom recognition should be given. Forum favourite Moore was roundly criticised for his ride on Papal Bull last time out. Will be interesting who the owners want for the Arc.
Youmzain consistent and genuine but everything seems to need to drop right for him.He seems to need dropping out and coming between horses off a good pace. Reckon better ground would suit. Was done no favours by Peslier today a furlong and half out ,but beaten 9 and a half lengths was anyone claiming he would have won? Connections weren’t and Hughes said he was never really happy.He only cost £30k and perhaps we expect too much as he battles the Ballydoyle battalions which are mopping up all G1s in Eire and the UK.Wish this globetrotter was mine!
As regards the Arc , will be interesting how both fare against the French horses and/or 3 year olds , who will turn up unlike today.
In terms of competing against the mighty Ballydoyle owner/breeder operation , questions should be asked of Godolphin. Unable to raise a compretitor for the King George, they were relegatedto a G2 at York with a colt transfered from M Johnston. It got beat and their retained jockey fell off after it jinked pulling up!
10-1 Youmzain for the Arc is one of the worst prices I’ve seen this year- if he can beat the likes of Zarkava and Montmartre I’ll pack in the game immediately.
10-1 is pretty bad, but in terms of pace hes quite a versatile horse as long as he has cut underfoot and he should be involved in the finish once again. His big race record in two king georges and an arc is 2,2,3 (with the 3 coming today on unsuitable ground) so the bookies clearly see him as an e/w bet at the minute. I would have wanted about 20s or better, however I dont see much money coming for him between now and then so he may well drift.
Montmartre is almost the stereotypical horse you would want for an arc bid, loves cut and loves a fast pace. But Zarkava (although pure class in fillies terms) is about as far from that Montmartre arc type as I can think of, I cant help but think her price is crazy due to Soumillons statements after the Prix Du Diane. Montmartres rise to power must surely have dented her chance of running.
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