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“There was too much emphasis on speed today”
Not really sure what Alan King meant by this.
I’ve read similar quotes when races have been slowly run and developed into a sprint; but that wasn’t the case in the race at Kempton yesterday was it?
I wouldn’t necessarily have thought that applies. Sectionals may prove otherwise if anyone has them to hand, but they seemed to go off at a good clip and stayed at it, resulting in a time all of 12.28 seconds faster than the Post standard for course and distance – that’s 0.77 seconds per furlong faster, and by some margin the day’s quickest-run race pro rata.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I think the ground was very quick and Katchit being a grinder was probably just done for pace. 2m on quick ground on a flat track even if run at a real clip is still a test of speed.
That would be my interpretation anyway…
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“There was too much emphasis on speed today”
Not really sure what Alan King meant by this.
I’ve read similar quotes when races have been slowly run and developed into a sprint; but that wasn’t the case in the race at Kempton yesterday was it?
I wouldn’t have thought that applies, no. Sectionals may prove otherwise if anyone has them to hand, but they seemed to go off at a good clip and stayed at it, resulting in a time all of 12.28 seconds faster than the Post standard for course and distance – that’s 0.77 seconds per furlong faster, and by some margin the day’s quickest-run race pro rata.
gc
I would guess that it’s a reference to the combination of the sharp track and fast ground that AK was highlighting?
Although the ground was officially good, the RP report the time-based ground as g/f, whereas the actual time of the race suggests it was appreciably faster, imo.Could have saved me the trouble Aragorn, had I seen it earlier.
I would guess that it’s a reference to the combination of the sharp track and fast ground that AK was highlighting?
Although the ground was officially good, the RP report the time-based ground as g/f, whereas the actual time of the race suggests it was appreciably faster, imo.As with so much, it’s probably an inexact science and as much open to what King actually meant by “emphasis on speed” as anything else.
Two of the chases were won by horses won making all or nearly all. In each instance, might there be an argument that those horses’ proven stamina – above and beyond the actuality of the assignment set them on the day – is what won out?
By which I mean: Oumeyade has not been a point-and-shoot horse hitherto, but his ability to win chases at up to 2m5.5f when ridden patiently must have imbued connections with some belief that he’d be able to make the 2m chase a searching enough test for him – despite the big drop in trip – by going off hard enough in front and staying there. The complete absence of any confirmed front-runner in the line-up was an added bonus, as it meant he could pour it on up front without getting into a destructive, sapping battle for that lead.
Conversely, Charlie’s Future did have a rival for the lead for nearly all of his race in McEvoy, but I’d suggest he brought the marginally better (at least recent) credentials to the race where winning from the front granted a stiffer test than a sharp 3m is concerned. McEvoy has indeed won over 3m1f in heavy at Fairyhouse in late 2006, but neither that nor his Ludlow win in January were gained making all. Charlie’s Future, however, had already notched two all-the-way 2m7.5f scores around sapping Exeter this calendar year.
The further the race went on, and the more apparent it became that none of the clowns behind them were going to pick their feet up for long enough to challenge, the more likely it became that the Alner gelding would outgun the Williams one granted his greater reserves.
That’s just one of many takes, anyway. Others are available. In labouring this point, I’m aware I might even be in danger of talking myself into thinking, “now if Kempton’s 2m risked being too sharp in and of itself, why didn’t they try to make all with Katchit?”. Who can tell. I know I can’t half the time.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Judging by many of the above posts was yesterday another striking example of how NH is far too revolved around Cheltenam?
In so far as so many of yesterday’s main players have the Festival as their ultimate aim, the tone of these posts is unavoidable to an extent.
But it’s not all about four days in a field in Gloucestershire five months hence by any means. I thought Cortinas advertised his claims as a solid flat course, good ground, speedy 2m chaser in the making, who barring a prohibitive mark already looks like a viable Red Rum Chase candidate to me. Having just read his stable tour in the Post over lunch, I’m delighted to learn that appears to be Charlie Mann’s thinking as well.
gc
Something which I have said on here before – there is more to the season than Cheltenham. Which is why from now until March the so called ‘trials’ are slightly untrustworthy. How many times do we hear ‘Dobbin’ was only 60% fit for the Bula/Charlie Hall/Another Gold Cup – it’ll bring him on – sorry but that is a Gd1/2 race – start treating it like it’s a proper race and not some tune up.
It was a fair run by Katchit and as expected he was never going to be 100% ready when his main target will be in 6 months time at Cheltenham which is the place that really brings him out.
Just like last year when Kauto Star got beaten at Aintree by Monets Garden people including myself thought that the season previous had taken a lot out of him and what did he do he won the Betfair,King George and Ascot Chases before his second to Denman in the Gold Cup.
Snap Tie had some fair novice form and was duly intitled to improve which he did and with Philip Hobbs’ horses in a good nick of form at the moment where as some of Alan Kings might just need a run.
Regarding the other races i thought Imsingingtheblues looks a fantastic prospect added on to Poquelin and Breedsbreeze and top early season novice chasers from the Paul Nicholls team.
Something which I have said on here before – there is more to the season than Cheltenham. Which is why from now until March the so called ‘trials’ are slightly untrustworthy. How many times do we hear ‘Dobbin’ was only 60% fit for the Bula/Charlie Hall/Another Gold Cup – it’ll bring him on – sorry but that is a Gd1/2 race – start treating it like it’s a proper race and not some tune up.
As I’ve said on here before, this perception is a complete myth, that I am determined to put to bed once and for all.
I can’t recall any trainer ever saying that the Bula was being used as a mere stepping stone for the Champion Hurdle a full four months later. Indeed, I’d be interested to hear any trainer or connections quotes that suggest the Bula – a great race in it’s own right – was being used merely to get a horse fit for the following March.
I issue the same challenge about any “other Gold Cups”.
As for the Charlie Hall, and other early season targets, it’s perfectly logical for trainers to say “He’ll improve for that run”, given that it is often a horse’s first outing of the season.
When a trainer suggests that a run will “put him spot-on for the Festival” it oftentimes – and almost certainly always in the case of the big trials – will mean that the run comes at an interval that suits a given horses training regime, and that it fits in logically with the horses build-up to Cheltenham. What it doesn’t mean is that a perfectly good pot has been sacrificed on the Festival altar.
Trainers know how difficult it is to win at Cheltenham. They are presumably also aware of the statistic which suggests that horses going to the Festival on the back of a win, are likely to do better than those going on the back of a defeat.
During the 2008 Cheltenham Festival, fourteen of the 24 races were won by horses who had finished first in their previous outing. Another five were won by horses who had finished second in their previous outing.
Make of that what you will. To me, it suggests that high-class and high-value trials are not sacrificed for a Festival run, and that anyone perpetuating this myth is talking hogwash of the highest order.
No offence AndyRAC, but this cobblers has been put about for far too long, and it needs exposing as fraudulent.
This "cobblers" was also referred to myself earlier in the thread. The above statistics are very interesting, even eye opening, to my perception of pre-cheltenam races.
Nethertheless, I have always championed the CH as a race in which you must have won your previous race (Hardy aside last 15 years) to stand a chance of winning. It seems i should broaden the trend throughout the festival. Interesting all round.
Don’t sweat it, PC – it wasn’t directed at any particular individual or individuals.
But the nonsense regularly trotted-out about there being "No Jumps ‘pattern’ (sic)" or major trial races in the Jumps calendar being considered mere sideshows to the Festival – with it’s implicit ‘Wasn’t trying because the race doesn’t matter’ innuendo – needed to be corrected, imo.
This just happens to be the first time I could actually be arsed to do any research to back it up.
I am a trends man just never clocked this trend. Would be (very) interested to know the average festival winners to previous pre-festival wins over the last 10 years, handicap and non, over the last 10 years. If you can be arsed of course!
PS – Still think Katchit should be higher rated than Hardy or Brave Inca? Or revised your opinion?
I do take your points, and while I was generalising – I should have mentioned the horse I was thinking of but had forgotten his name. But I’m still sure it happens more than on the flat. But, yes, you don’t want to ruin their Festival chances by having a hard race beforehand. It’s a case of bringing them to the boil for the Big day.
PC, to answer your first question – no, I can’t be arsed.
To answer your second question, I don’t think I ever once suggested that Katchit should be rated higher than Hardy Eustace or Brave Inca. I think I said something along the lines of "…..if Katchit isn’t their equal, then there’s only a pound or two in it". If you can be arsed to find the thread which proves otherwise, then by all means go ahead.
If the inference in your question was that Katchit’s Kempton run proves unequivocally that he is a poorer animal than both Hardy Eustace and Brave Inca, then I’m forced to disagree. In my opinion, Sunday’s run is no more representative of Katchit’s best form, than the 2003 December Hurdle was of Hardy Eustace’s, or the 2005 Hattons Grace of Brave Inca’s.
“There was too much emphasis on speed today”
Not really sure what Alan King meant by this.
I’ve read similar quotes when races have been slowly run and developed into a sprint; but that wasn’t the case in the race at Kempton yesterday was it?
I wouldn’t have thought that applies, no. Sectionals may prove otherwise if anyone has them to hand, but they seemed to go off at a good clip and stayed at it, resulting in a time all of 12.28 seconds faster than the Post standard for course and distance – that’s 0.77 seconds per furlong faster, and by some margin the day’s quickest-run race pro rata.
gc
I would guess that it’s a reference to the combination of the sharp track and fast ground that AK was highlighting?
Although the ground was officially good, the RP report the time-based ground as g/f, whereas the actual time of the race suggests it was appreciably faster, imo.Could have saved me the trouble Aragorn, had I seen it earlier.
I was freaking out wondering if i’d written it or not until I saw my post!
the only way i can describe Sunday is utterly disappointing!
It certainly didn’t go to plan.
Alan was nervous that the race had come a little too soon but i still don’t think we expected to get beaten even allowing for the fact that we were possibly not quite ready.
Katchit is 20kilos heavier than he was last season and we hope that’s filling out not getting fat… he blew for 30 minutes after the race which implies that he wasn’t quite ready
Two days on i have to say that it was ideal in many ways as a run out… no we shouldn’t have been beaten but at least that would’ve blown the cobwebs away in a big way.
he’s stronger than ever, working better than ever and if he comes on for that run we’ll be in good shape for Cheltenham given he’s worth a good 10lbs more there… we’re certainly not writing off anything just yet
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