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TAPK
Talikng rubbish again ST Nicholas Abbey will win the Epsom derby been backing since 1 day after debut. have no problem if Workforce beats him in 2000.
[quote="Pinza" Watching the way the race was run, though, gives no ammunition for impartial observers to doubt Mr O’Brien’s word that the expected slow pace did not play to Fame and Glory’s strength.
There was never going to be a fast pace with that lot,so why didn"t Johnny just let him lead himself and run them ragged? Why didn"t Dixie Music take them along at a sensible pace to ensure Fame got the gallop required?So obvious to you Pinza that Fame looked unfit for a 1/10 shot,so he goes off at 2/5,hardly generous but according to you then,Fame should never have been running for anything other than an excercise gallop,something he should have been doing back at the yard before he even set foot on a racecourse!
TAPK
Talikng rubbish again ST Nicholas Abbey will win the Epsom derby been backing since 1 day after debut. have no problem if Workforce beats him in 2000.
I can see i"ve met my match with you darren! Workforce will find 11/2m right up his street,not only has he the speed for the mile,he has stamina from his Dams side! (Brian Boru)
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I’m genuinely bemused by this thread. The idea that this horse should have been tuned up 100% to win a listed race on heavy ground in April is certainly a curious one to any purist lover of the flat, as several contributors have pointed out.
Only disappointed punters, or sourpusses gunning for the Pedestal Man, could rationalise otherwise.
RoF has pointed out the rules – which part haven’t you understood, to arrive at the above conclusion?
The fact that the horse was having his first run of the season is irrelevant.
The fact that the horse is trained by someone in poor early season form is irrelevant.
The fact that AOB is the trainer is also irrelevant.
However, the rule book of the Irish Turf Club is relevant.
212. (a) Every horse which runs in a race shall be run on its merits.
(i) The rider of every horse shall take all reasonable and
permissible measures throughout the race to ensure that
his horse is given a full opportunity to win or of obtaining
the best possible place.
(ii) Horses shall not be run in races where they are in a
condition which would preclude their chances of winning
nor shall they be run for the purpose of giving them a
school.
(iii) The racecourse must not be used as a training ground and
all horses, including horses having their first run, must be
ridden to attain the best possible place and must not be
deliberately eased before passing the winning post without good reasonIs it really unreasonable or unfair to expect that the stewards should have asked Murtagh and the trainer to explain the riding of Fame and Glory yesterday?
Enough said!
Rules fall out of compliance through non enforcement Hence the euphemism "working to rule".
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RoF has pointed out the rules – which part haven’t you understood, to arrive at the above conclusion?
That contributor has certainly
quoted
the rules, but signally failed to indicate how any reasonable, unbiased interpreter could apply them negatively to this particular example of race-riding – and training.
Those contributors who are accusing Aidan O’Brien and Johnny Murtagh of cheating, or at least gamesmanship, have yet to demonstrate how having Fame and Glory
lose
this important listed event benefited them.
Fame and Glory was ridden (appropriately) like the best horse in the race, but a furlong out it was obvious that the horse’s expected strong stamina wasn’t going to see him through on the day. The horse, very simply, wasn’t going to get up to win; and no amount of thrashing from Murtagh would have got him past the tuned-to-the-minute She’s Our Mark, whose momentum was so much greater.
Personally I have greater faith in Mr O’Brien’s probity and understanding of his horses, and his craft, than in the kind of scurrilous, cheap, nonsensical whining that his detractors here persist in peddling.
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Pinza
I take it then you didn’t watch the race – my wife could have won on it!
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BB
Now, there’s a surprise.
Maybe you also agree that a number of of members who’ve been around the block a bit are scurrilous, irrational, cheap, nonsensical and whiners as described?Cannot believe there are 5 pages to this thread.
Fame And Glory is a slow, slow horse. Slow slow slow slow slow. Slow. Slow. He’ll end up being a 2-miler. Won’t even bother after-timing but anyone who’s backing an O’Brien horse at 2/5 in April seriously needs a psychiatric evaluation. You’re supposed to learn and take in information to be good at this game, ffs.
reet no, sorry, not being disrespectful with my post. Just baffling to me. Why would they WANT to lose? Horse not ‘ready’, horse not a flashy, quickener type, horse running on testing ground, not the horse’s target – we all know what "target trainers" are like. So should we start suspending all trainers who prep on a racecourse? Massive over-reaction.
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Not you too, Zarkava – ffs, it isn’t compulsory to have lost money before one has an opinion.
My views on FAG have been made clear a number of times on this forum, none of them favourable. I also think I can reasonably claim to be more savvy than most on here when it comes to understanding how horses are raced and placed.
None of that, however, will ever leave me to countenance 2/5 shots being turned over through nothing more than lack of effort, and then being told it’s ok.
It isn’t,it’s cheating
, not you or me, but the thousands of poor saps who expect a reasonable run for their money.
to be honest I couldn’t give a flying f about "poor saps".
When I knew f all about the game I didn’t go near 2/5 shots.
If anyone’s done their money, crikey, what a great lesson they’ve had, will save them fortunes.I can recall as far back as 1976.Dermot Weld ‘s second runner in the 2yo races would be ridden by Pat Shanahan. His choice runner and most likely winner in those days was ridden by Mick Kinane. Invariably Shanahan would finish last and Kinane would win.Next time out the horse which had finished last would have the stable jockey,Kinane, aboard and would start favorite and more often than not win.From last to first without a squeak from the stewards.So there is a noble tradition in Ireland of allowing the top trainers to use the track to familiarize their horses with racing proper. I have spoken about this practice many times in the past and have been overwhelmed by forum contributors explaining how %80 fit horses were allowed to race without invoking the rules to ban their up market trainers but not explaining how permit holders who cannot afford prime training facilities are summarily dismissed with a three months ban for doing the exact same thing.
Mr O’Brien says:
Fame and Glory and Dixie Music both ran well in the Alleged stakes, the slow pace probably did not suit either of them but we were pleased with their runs and think that they should both improve a lot from today.
I’m genuinely bemused by this thread. The idea that this horse should have been tuned up 100% to win a listed race on heavy ground in April is certainly a curious one to any purist lover of the flat, as several contributors have pointed out.
Only disappointed punters, or sourpusses gunning for the Pedestal Man, could rationalise otherwise.
Now, if anyone else besides a somnolent Pinza was behind the Red Button on Sunday (that golden, Dessie-free silence much preferable to taking in an interminably dull 3m hurdle from Southwell) they’d have got the picture, as the camera focused on Fame and Glory all the way out of the paddock, across the course, and up to the start.
Why this 1-10 shot was trading at 2-5 was supremely evident from his stuffiness and general demeanour.
Yet defeat over 10F at listed level does not do the horse’s stud prestige any good, does it? So if there’d been a chance he could have won Murtagh would have pulled out at least a couple more stops. Watching the way the race was run, though, gives no ammunition for impartial observers to doubt Mr O’Brien’s word that the expected slow pace did not play to Fame and Glory’s strength.
I doubt the horse will win the Ganay, traditionally easy picking though this race may be – he’s never had instant acceleration at any distance, and in a 10.5F race that Longchamp straight requires an animal to manage that.
Though Special Duty – at least as tenderly ridden to defeat in her Gp. 3 Guineas prep at Longchamp, and who has criticised
that?
– may well still trot up at Newmarket.
Well said that man!
Agree with you 100% Pinza.The thing that Special Duty and F&G have in comman is their yards are in poor form. When this is the case, jockeys often don’t give them hard races, feering they will set the horse back.
Value Is EverythingPinza You surprise me. You bullying language is simple an effort to suppress dissent.What has been written here is simply the fair and honest opinion of other users of the forum. It is far from the type you describe. You may choose to disagree with us and good for you but that is simply your opinion.You may choose to interpret the Rule Book differently from others but it is still your interpretation.If Aidan needed a good gallop in order to win he would use a pacemaker(see Bold Quest for Rocket Man in the last race at the Curragh yesterday).So go figure.
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