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John Gosden is the boss – the Italian fellow just an employee

Home Forums Horse Racing John Gosden is the boss – the Italian fellow just an employee

Viewing 17 posts - 103 through 119 (of 211 total)
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  • #1604584
    IanDavies
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    • Total Posts 5644

    “Could he have been closer to the pace? Maybe but Strad has never been a prominent racer really. Would any jockey change successful tactics in such a big race?”

    And that’s a really good point (I think someone else – GT? – said similar) and that’s exactly why I said I don’t know if it would have made any difference.

    I think just over a furlong out is the furthest from home Stradivarius has ever led in a Gold Cup.

    I think the truth is we will never know for sure on this one.

    Sir Cherryade of Hampshire
    ("Chezza" to the proletariat)
    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/

    #1604587
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1774

    Assume Havlin will get the leg up at Goodwood if they are that way inclined or failing that they can always call Andrea Atzeni (if available) to ride the horse as he is unbeaten in 3 rides on him including 2 Goodwood Cups oddly enough.

    For me absolutely 1000% Gosden should have kept it in house but personally I don’t think it was as bad as some others think (although we all come at it with slightly differing views, as it should be so no problem with that) but really no different to how I didn’t think that way when Dettori has on multiple occassions made inappropriate comments post race (i.e. blaming the horse not being as good and/or questioning other jockey’s tactics as spoiling when clearly not). In all cases I viewed it as rather stupid comments to be making in a highly public arena by people that should really know better but we are all human so……..

    Hopefully, a little space and some time to reflect on things will see them return to friendlier times – whether that means Dettori will ever ride as stable jockey for Team Gosden again or not they have had too much good history over too many years to end a relationship this way…..cooler heads and all that.

    #1604590
    Istabraq
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    • Total Posts 464

    This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

    He should ride more often midweek to keep his skills sharp

    #1604591
    IanDavies
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    • Total Posts 5644

    Dettori is no angel and he’s done his fair share of charmless moaning that’s made me cringe.

    But for me the difference is he’s whining about a horse (who can’t hear him, though admittedly the owner can), another jockey who might have got the better of him, but never an employee – because he doesn’t employ anyone.

    If Gosden was just a punter having a moan on Twitter about the fiver he’d lost on Stradivarius it wouldn’t matter.

    But he wasn’t, he was Dettori’s employer.

    So it needed to be kept behind closed doors.

    But wasn’t.

    Sir Cherryade of Hampshire
    ("Chezza" to the proletariat)
    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/

    #1604599
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1774

    Fully agree it should have been kept behind closed doors but are Gosden’s words/action worse than what Dettori said to a fellow professional (although much younger) jockey:

    “The kid (Dylan Browne McMonagle) in front did everything he could to get me beat,” “It was a disgrace.”

    Albeit he did apologise later, although it did come with a little dig about him lacking racecourse experience so not a full on apology without still trying to shift some blame off himself for his behaviour.

    The comments taken at face value you can argue that Dettori was more out of line as his comments clearly weren’t accurate whereas Gosden’s comments (the ‘our hero’ line aside which is very patronizing) were not factually incorrect.

    That being said in both cases it was totally unacceptable to air those comments in public regardless of the relationship as it is very unprofessional but we have all done/said things that in retrospect were better being kept to ourselves, doesn’t automatically makes us bad people…..just human and prone to errors of judgement.

    #1604602
    IanDavies
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5644

    But Dettori didn’t employ Dylan Browne McMonagle – it was a completely different scenario and context.

    In fact Dylan Browne McMonagle came out of it really well.

    I’m sure at some point Dylan Browne McMonagle said to someone older: “Dettori trashed me – should I be worried?”

    And got the answer: “Worried? You should be delighted. Shows you got right under his skin and outrode him. The only people you need to keep happy are your owner, trainer and the stewards. Who cares what the opposition think? It’s dog eat dog.”

    Sir Cherryade of Hampshire
    ("Chezza" to the proletariat)
    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/

    #1604616
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1774

    Dylan came out of it really well because he acted like a seasoned professional only saying:

    “I just pulled my horse out for a run and I didn’t have enough under me to go through with it,” he said. “Look, that’s race riding and that’s how it goes.”

    A lesson to both Gosden and Dettori me thinks

    #1604691
    pilgarlic
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    • Total Posts 686

    I had another look back at the ITV pictures from the paddock before The Oaks. Not a ghost of a smile exchanged between the pair, hand gestures, Frankie speaking with a wide open mouth as if with a raised voice and a sullen demeanour. JG walks away and Frankie is left alone,tight lipped with hands on hips.

    #1604703
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 29896

    Frankie is usually like that before a big race, Pilgarlic. Once in the paddock the jovial Frankie is left behind.

    Value Is Everything
    #1604745
    pilgarlic
    Participant
    • Total Posts 686

    I haven’t been to high quality flat meetings to know that Ginge. It looked a bit out of the ordinary to me though.

    #1604814
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 29896

    “There are ways of going about disagreeing with people and there’s a couple here who certainly don’t choose the same way most others do”.

    ———————

    There are Mr Chezza.
    Shame you don’t practice what you preach.

    Value Is Everything
    #1604824
    clivexx
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2680

    It’s a bit of a tiff between two strong characters. Surprised at gosden myself but it’s not the end of the world

    Maybe they never really had the right chemistry in t(e first place

    #1604825
    Nathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26468

    If Gosden is loosening the reigns and thinking of retirement for himself he maybe a little stressed
    I’m not sure too many hand downs from father to son actually work out in the long run. This day and age especially. Thaddy maybe 100% focused on horseracing but may need a nudge from Jermaine Jenas, I’m not sure

    #1604830
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 29896

    Problem is over the last year Frankie has made – or thought to have made – so many mistakes in important races.

    Only natural that pressure builds up on both jockey and trainer. Pressure in the jockey’s mind which leads to even more mistakes… And in the trainer’s mind when – in his opinion – he’s lost Group 1 after Group 1 because of his jockey’s mistakes.

    This type of falling out is always going to happen. tbh Am surprised it doesn’t happen more often when there’s as much prestige and money involved. No big deal.

    To think of Frankie or Gosden as a bad person just because of this falling out is ridiculous.

    Value Is Everything
    #1604835
    clivexx
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2680

    This is correct. These days people get deemed monsters for the rest of their days because of one off colour or thoughtless comment. Social media to blame entirely

    However I will say that gosden calling his son Thaddy because of disabilities was pretty tasteless

    #1605035
    IanDavies
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5644

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/john-gosden-leaves-door-open-for-frankie-dettori-reunion-after-split/565864

    Maybe I’m just being cynical – and am way off – but I just wonder if Inspiral’s connections have made it VERY clear who they want to continue to ride their unbeaten filly – the bloke who’s never put a foot wrong on her – so John Gosden is now having to orchestrate a way back without losing too much face?

    Sir Cherryade of Hampshire
    ("Chezza" to the proletariat)
    Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/

    #1605052
    Purwell
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1140

    Good for them, they pay the bills at the end of the day.

    Yonder stands your orphan with his gun
    Crying like a fire in the Sun
    Look out baby, the saints are comin' through
    And it's all over now, baby blue
Viewing 17 posts - 103 through 119 (of 211 total)
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