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I was having my dinner shortly before the race began and the butterflies in my stomach made it a touch hard to eat. When the race went off and watched the ease how Frankel was travelling, the butterflies just went
Tremendous performance!
The way Frankel behaved before, during and after the race was the best I’d ever seen him. Sir Henry Cecil is doing an exceptional job with this phenomenal horse.
But John Francome’s negative comments about Frankel when he’s being paraded does make the mind boggle. I thought the horse looked magnificent.
That performance might just be Frankel’s best to date?
Timeform have rated Frankel’s performance today at 142.
Although he has extended his superiority over Excelebration, who had the benefit of a run under his belt, to five lengths and that over Dubawi Gold by three lengths, based on their 2,000 Guineas form, Frankel’s run today is held down by the proximity of Bullet Train.
Needless to say, it looked as though the winner could’ve won by much further had he been asked to do so and there remains little doubt that he could post a far higher figure later in the season.
What a crock of manure…One horse runs above himself which is hardly unusual for a horse like Bullet Train especially since he had an easy lead and Timeform ignore the fact Frankel has beaten 2 proper horses easier than ever.
There’s more to that rating of 142 than meets the eye I assure you and it’s all to do with past champions V present and got bog all to do with Bullet Train
For me the problem lies in how you lot rate excellebration. Where is the proof that he’s the 3rd best horse in the world? Don’t give me this claptrap about needing depth of good horses to earn a high rating. That has nothing to do with it when you are overrating those that you are calling the good horses. Frankel’s outstanding but what is he really beating? Relying on timeform to judge uk horses is a joke.
To me it was a marginal improvement on his Sussex Stakes run which I regarded as his best run before yesterday. He travelled with far more authority and ran through to the line. Timeform made a rod for their own back by over-rating his 2000 Guineas performance and then blindly refusing to admit they had done so. Mr Bull will be turning in his grave.
He is an exceptional racehorse.For me the problem lies in how you lot rate excellebration.
Or how the aussies rate Hay List?
For me the problem lies in how you lot rate excellebration. Where is the proof that he’s the 3rd best horse in the world? Don’t give me this claptrap about needing depth of good horses to earn a high rating. That has nothing to do with it when you are overrating those that you are calling the good horses. Frankel’s outstanding but what is he really beating? Relying on timeform to judge uk horses is a joke.
Did you miss the Mouliln last season?
The first three home ran almost to the ounce what their official ratings suggested they would.
It can be argued that Frankel deserves extra credit for that performance in face of the disadvantage he had in terms of preparation in the weeks before the race.
The ease of victory leaves me in no doubt that he has indeed progressed since last season. If suitable opposition turns up for his future races, I can quite easily see him usurp Sea Bird as No1 of all-time, at least in Europe.
I think it’s difficult to realisticly equate the North American greats of yesteryear like Secretriat, Man O’War, Buckpasser, Dr Fager to Frankel, but I would be of the opinion that last one they has in the States that would be somewhere close in terms of ability was Spectacular Bid.
I think aic you miss the point that great horses have the ability to make very good horses look very ordinary. like montjeu laughing at fantastic light in the king george, for example.
The thing is frankel is a freak. the first time I saw him run was in a bookies, and it was a tin-pot race at doncaster. This horse who’s name escapes me was doing flat out at sprinters pace and suddenly frankel just cruised up to him on the bridle with no effort whatsoever and I was like wow, I just gasped in admiration. I knew he was special then because I hand-timed his last two furlongs and it was considerably quicker than saamid who won at the track the next day, in the champagne stakes, at at time when the godolphin horse was considered one of the best juveniles around.
He takes two strides to most horse’s one, so he might not look like he’s going that fast but he really is. Excelebration, for all his ability (he won the german guineas very easily, the moulin etc) just doesn’t have the sheer weapons the deal with a horse like frankel. He’s got this huge stride so even if you live with his initial burst of speed, he just gallops at this incredible relentless pace after that.
I struggle to think of horses even in the past who could have lived with him over a mile; perhaps something with a devastating turn of foot like an arazi or a brigadier gerard, or a pyschical freak like zafonic.
For me the problem lies in how you lot rate excellebration. Where is the proof that he’s the 3rd best horse in the world? Don’t give me this claptrap about needing depth of good horses to earn a high rating. That has nothing to do with it when you are overrating those that you are calling the good horses. Frankel’s outstanding but what is he really beating? Relying on timeform to judge uk horses is a joke.
Actually the highest rated horse of all time by Timeform was French and they would quickly tell you if they had been rating American horses at the time Secretariat would be the number 1.
If there is any prejudice towards UK horses it’s taking it’s time to show.
They could have easily made a case and given Frankel a 145 on Saturday but they didn’t. They dropped him as I said earlier.
I cant understand why Connections are running Frankel in the Queen Ann stakes. Surly the time as come to step him up in trip and go for the prince of Wales stakes and take on better horses over a new trip. He has nothing to prove running over a mile now and you have to think connections are running scared of him getting beat over a longer trip. You can bet your bottom dollar that he wont run in the eclipse and they will wait to run him in the international stakes at York where you probably wont get a strong field.
No doubt Frankel over a mile is the best there’s ever been but hes bred to get longer and until he does his high rating cannot be justified.
why not? if an athlete only wins races over 100 metres, and never races over further than that, does that somehow "downgrade" his rating? is carl lewis less of an athlete because he never won over 400 meters?
not sure the breeding has much to do with it either. its clear that frankel takes as much after his dam, who was a sprinter, than his brilliant sire.
I think it’s difficult to realisticly equate the North American greats of yesteryear like Secretriat, Man O’War, Buckpasser, Dr Fager to Frankel, but I would be of the opinion that last one they has in the States that would be somewhere close in terms of ability was Spectacular Bid.
Ghostzapper, actually. He got a lot of flack for his light campaign but he was incredibly fast and got the highest (official) Beyer Speed Figures ever.
Easy Goer would be at a similar level. He ran the fastest mile ever run by a 3yo (1:32 2/5).
For me the problem lies in how you lot rate excellebration. Where is the proof that he’s the 3rd best horse in the world? Don’t give me this claptrap about needing depth of good horses to earn a high rating. That has nothing to do with it when you are overrating those that you are calling the good horses. Frankel’s outstanding but what is he really beating? Relying on timeform to judge uk horses is a joke.
Actually the highest rated horse of all time by Timeform was French and they would quickly tell you if they had been rating American horses at the time Secretariat would be the number 1.
If there is any prejudice towards UK horses it’s taking it’s time to show.
They could have easily made a case and given Frankel a 145 on Saturday but they didn’t. They
dropped
him as I said earlier.
Timeform haven’t "dropped" Frankel HGM, they just rate yesterdays
performance
1 lb less than the QEII. His Master rating remains 143 (the rating they believe him capable of) and they wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if Frankel improves on that later on in the season. To put the 142 in to context, the best rating for the Lockinge prior to yesterday was Hawk Wing on 136.
Don’t ask me how Timeform rated the performance lower than the QEII. Because it baffles me.
Value Is EverythingFor me the problem lies in how you lot rate excellebration. Where is the proof that he’s the 3rd best horse in the world? Don’t give me this claptrap about needing depth of good horses to earn a high rating. That has nothing to do with it when you are overrating those that you are calling the good horses. Frankel’s outstanding but what is he really beating? Relying on timeform to judge uk horses is a joke.
Actually the highest rated horse of all time by Timeform was French and they would quickly tell you if they had been rating American horses at the time Secretariat would be the number 1.
If there is any prejudice towards UK horses it’s taking it’s time to show.
They could have easily made a case and given Frankel a 145 on Saturday but they didn’t. They dropped him as I said earlier.
Secretariat I believe was 144 HGM.
I’ve already explained on another thread to AIC about Sea Bird being French (along with Allez France (equal best mare). Plus Ribot being Italian etc etc… And the Timeform ratings given to Australian horses being produced by Australians (not Brits)… Black Caviar being rated the equal best mare… Best staying performance last year being rated as Americain (now trained in Australia) in finishing 4th in the Melbourne Cup…
But it makes no difference. AIC wants to believe Timeform are prejudiced, because he knows deep down AIC is prejudiced. Therefore he believes everyone else to be equally so. Judging others by his own standards.
Value Is EverythingSo that discussion is over. Now we must face up to the challenge world wide. Black Cavciar is coming to Ascot to face new oponents . Frankel is coming to Ascot .Why? They don’t need the money. They hardly need the accolades but they do need to prove something by coming to Ascot.What? That he can win over a mile? That he can beat the same horses in front of the Queen? I really don’t know.Can anyone enlighten me?
For me the problem lies in how you lot rate excellebration.
Or how the aussies rate Hay List?
I think Aussies have a slightly better frame of reference with Hay List, especially now Ortensia went and broke the track record in Dubai.
Winning on a bog track in France is a good effort but why should it elevate you to 3rd best horse in the world?
Frankel ran his last split in the Q II in something like 12.94 – beejeebus that is slow – I know we’re talking different course types but we’re also talking about a horse you guys are suggesting is the best of all time.
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