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As a 6 year old I learned his commentary of the 1977 Derby and the legendary duel down the straight between Hot Grove and The Minstrel. It was my party piece. I LOVED his voice ( he wasn’t called “The Voice of Racing” for nothing) and the building excitement in tone as a race neared its climax. I also had the pleasure of meeting him once as a young lad and still have the autograph that he kindly signed for me. He was a class act. Maybe my specs are rose-tinted but, for me, he will always be the best.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I thought O’Sullevan was a pretty poor commentator to be honest – so many mistakes and commentary-by-numbers a la Des Scahill. The point about him really doing his homework is a bit of a non-starter as well. He averaged about 6 races a week to commentate on, which would be a ridiculously light workload by today’s standards. But yes, he was probably the best of those on television at the time, not that that is saying much.
He also profited from incumbency-bias that dictates that all of the BBC’s old commentators were “The Voice of…(insert sport here)”. The thought of listening to Dan Maskell, Ron Pickering, Ted Lowe or Harry Carpenter nowadays would drive me to distraction!
Sport always moves on. Stanley Matthews would be a non-league player at best nowadays, simply by dint of the advancements in physique, nutrition and conditioning. But he was peerless in his day. Likewise the great Welsh rugby union sides of the 70s would concede three figures (and then some!) if they were to play Wales today.
But don’t worry, in 50 years time young football fans will watch old clips of the likes of Messi and Ronaldo and just laugh at how slow and inept they were…
Mike
<p abp=”270″>It wouldn’t really bother me now, but when I was a lot younger (in the eighties) I used to despair at the number of mistakes he made. I don’t know if I noticed it more as I was a young obsessive, but another particular flaw he had, was concentrating on particular horses. He was often lauded for his impartiality during the like of Attivo’s races, but in my era, you could tell a mile off if there was a particular horse he wanted to win.
<p abp=”271″>My view exactly VTC. His commentary on the 1981 Grand National was a good example – clear that he wanted “54 year old John Thorne to win” and his disappointment when Aldaniti passed the post in front was pretty obvious.
<p abp=”272″>Agree about the errors too. I’m sure it was far more difficult in those days, before the advantages of technology that today’s commentators enjoy, however, to a child’s ear, Sir Peter did seem to make many elementary mistakes and it inevitably got worse as he got older.
<p abp=”273″>He was indisputably the “voice of racing” but by no means perfect and, in my opinion, was allowed to carry on when his ability to do the job well had long passed
I remember a response to someone who said at 42, Stanley Matthews was past his best. The answer was that may be true but he was still the best right-winger in the world.
Agreeing who’s the best commentator or even agreeing which criteria make a top caller is impossible because its largely subjective. For me the most important measures are timbre, flow, accuracy and quantity of information. I appreciate being able to trust events back in the field won’t be missed and like to know where the majority of horses are and how they’re going as much of the time as possible. In my opinion Stewart Machin is head and shoulders above the rest. His knowledge and intelligence is excellent and his puns are delivered with the same slightly sarcastic and self-mocking inclination that characterises his double act with Jonathan Neesom.
The hardest race to call is the Grand National and when ‘in the country’ Machin is able to convey the current status of most of the field as well as pick up and identify any incidents. Contrast this with Richard Hoiles who has the habit of repeating information as if to reassure himself wasting time and words. He misidentified Gas Line Boy in the closing stages in 2017, unforgivable.
Peter O’Sullevan began to go past his best in the mid to late 70s. Before the sharpness of his memory began to dull he was brilliant at rapidly identifying the exact position of all the runners between the Anchor Bridge Crossing on the first circuit to the Melling Road on the second. Surely the best ever piece of commentary was by Michael O’Heir on the melee at the 23rd in 1967. When suddenly confronted by a once in fifty years incident he was calm, accurate, descriptive and in the confusion of horses and jockeys scattering in all directions he didn’t miss who the rank outsider was that got over first time.
Most of the current day commentators, apart from the obvious exceptions who have been mentioned, are very good. Simon Holt is better again now he has escaped terrestrial TV. I like Darren Owen because he injects enthusiasm, a sense of fun and creates excitement in even the most mundane affairs. Mark Johnson tries to do the same but goes over the top, injecting serious reverence when not warranted and is desperate to shout his rehearsed lines such as ‘pinpoint accuracy’. I’m sorry but Malcolm Tomlinson’s voice just grates on me. John Hunt and Ian Bartlett are not as good as their reputations suggest they should be. Gareth Topham, Alan Howes, Mark Slater and Tony Ennis are solid but lack distinctive voices. I prefer David Fitzgerald’s obvious passion for jumping. Who have I left out?
It is hard to directly compare any type of human or equine athlete across generations. It may be possible to estimate relative merit by how each measured up against their peers. In racing sports there is also the tale of the clock with the proviso, however, that athletes inevitably become stronger, faster as decades and centuries pass. For example, a new GN course record was set in each year 1933/34/35 and then not broken until 1973. This would suggest that the 1930’s was the golden age of steeplechasing in more ways than one!
Simon Holt is better again now he has escaped terrestrial TV. I like Darren Owen because he injects enthusiasm, a sense of fun and creates excitement in even the most mundane affairs. Mark Johnson tries to do the same but goes over the top, injecting serious reverence when not warranted and is desperate to shout his rehearsed lines such as ‘pinpoint accuracy’. I’m sorry but Malcolm Tomlinson’s voice just grates on me. John Hunt and Ian Bartlett are not as good as their reputations suggest they should be. Gareth Topham, Alan Howes, Mark Slater and Tony Ennis are solid but lack distinctive voices. I prefer David Fitzgerald’s obvious passion for jumping. Who have I left out?
I think Martin Harris is excellent. Can name the whole field without a problem, picks up any incidents quickly and accurately without relying on the monitor. Has a lightning quick wit and brilliantly dry sense of humour.
Having said all that, I think we’ve all veered off the original subject of this thread! It seems to have turned into a general discussion.
A race readers in running comments would be:
Quickly into stride, jumping well when ran out. Uncontrollable.
....and you've got to look a long way back for anything else.
LOL, refreshing to hear that other people feel that Sir P was not necessarily the best. He always irritated the hell out of me, and later on (not really his fault) I hated when he got called on to add gravitas to some debate, when others could have done better. He came across as a pompous old fart. As a commentator now, I like Hoiles, and also the chap on RUK whose daughter plays Mrs Poldark (Malcolm Tomlinson?) He’s an actor too, has the voice for it.
As I was the person who started the Sir Peter O’Sullevan sometimes made mistakes debate , it is therefore only right that I should tip the scales a little in his favour .
If you watch and listen to his commentary of the 1975 King George & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes , you will soon appreciate why he was so lauded by fellow professionals and pundits . His whole delivery from start to finish was flawless , as it was exciting .
For what it’s worth , my favourite racing commentator was radio stalwart , Peter Bromley . I loved listening to his commentaries.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Bromley’s first day in the job as a racecourse commentator gave him the unmissable opportunity to utter the words, “Atom Bomb has fallen!”.
One of O’Sullevans outstanding commmentaries was when Be Friendly won in the Vernons Cup. Here was one of the big sprint races of the year but you would not have known O’Sullevan owned Be Friendly.
Hi kingbenitch, I do not think there was ever any suggestion that he was not impartial when his own horses were running, and he would obviously had to make sure of this. It was in other races where he repeatedly came up short, and his commentaries were often poor by being dominated with one horse.
He was the main commentator in my youth, and I spent far too long for a child watching racing with my Grandad, and he was not of a fan of O’Sullevan in the slightest. I can still hear my Grandads voice booming in my ear, shouting at the television ‘there’s other horses in the race man’ or ‘you’ve got the wrong bloody horse man’
With my Grandad being an influence at an early age, he no doubt steered me in my opinion, but I always found O’Sullivan very very overrated as well.
A night out with the lads from my Racing Club a few years back was a real eye opener for me. As usual the conversation was all things racing, and one of the lads mentioned O’Sullevan as peerless or similar, and I had to bite my lip as I thought I would be in the minority but I was amazed to find that as we went round the table that almost to a man nobody rated him as a commentator and mainly for the reasons which have been mentioned here by others
Sir Peter O’Sullevan was undoubtedly the man for the big occasion with his superb voice and sense of occasion.
He, John Hanmer and Julian Wilson made a compelling commentary team in the BBC Grand National coverage for so many years, even though Hanmer’s rasping, laryngitis-type voice and painfully slow, hesitant delivery made it hard to see why he was employed at all, apart from being available because of his behind-the-scenes race-reading and spotting duties for Sir Peter when not behind the microphone.
Sir Peter has been perhaps unfairly lambasted for his mistakes but Julian Wilson made one of the worst howlers during one National when he wrongly said runners were having to dodge a “dead horse”. His commentary was duly edited for the highlights programme to remove the offending phrase.
He also attracted ridicule for saying during a rare BBC visit to Bangor-on-Dee that the runners were passing the stands, before quickly adding “except that there aren’t any”.
The old commentators of yesteryear had a great charm for their quirks (this includes presenters like the comically incompetent John Rickman) and few of them would even get a job interview today compared with today’s technically far superior commentators.
But a very good reminder of the old days came when I was watching a race from Cartmel the other day when commentator David Fitzgerald mentioned that the horse leading the field in the big race was partly owned by Varlien Vyner-Brooks.
David will presumably have known that the aged Vyner-Brooks used to be a racecourse commentator in the old days, being the resident commentator at Cartmel before Iain Mackenzie inherited that position.
I was longing for David to add in the phrase “owned by Varlien Vyner-Brooks, who commentated here at Cartmel for so many years” but it never came. I was willing the horse to win for old time’s sake and it duly did. A nice piece of nostalgia for sad types like me ….
Vyner-Brooks was one of the old-fashioned types who worked part-time while having another career (in his case, as a solicitor in Kendal, near Cartmel, I believe).
He’s one of the last of the older brigade of racecourse commentators from the 1970s and 80s still alive following the deaths of many in recent years, notably Robin Gray, Ken Grainger and Bruce Friend-James.
But a very good reminder of the old days came when I was watching a race from Cartmel the other day when commentator David Fitzgerald mentioned that the horse leading the field in the big race was partly owned by Varlien Vyner-Brooks.
David will presumably have known that the aged Vyner-Brooks used to be a racecourse commentator in the old days, being the resident commentator at Cartmel before Iain Mackenzie inherited that position.
I was longing for David to add in the phrase “owned by Varlien Vyner-Brooks, who commentated here at Cartmel for so many years” but it never came. I was willing the horse to win for old time’s sake and it duly did. A nice piece of nostalgia for sad types like me ….
Vyner-Brooks was one of the old-fashioned types who worked part-time while having another career (in his case, as a solicitor in Kendal, near Cartmel, I believe).
CustyPatch, I don’t recall him commentating but (I know it’s hard to believe) Peter Naughton conducted a very good interview with him after his winner. Varlien just has a way with words and reminded me very much of O’Sullevan, the same dulcet tones. I was dumbstruck when he said he used to be a commentator and was a colleague of “The Voice”.
I think you make a good point about David the commentator missing a trick, it would have been a great line to come up with. Maybe he was unaware at the time of the connection (just shows how important preparation is) but maybe he will get the opportunity again in the near future.
But a very good reminder of the old days came when I was watching a race from Cartmel the other day when commentator David Fitzgerald mentioned that the horse leading the field in the big race was partly owned by Varlien Vyner-Brooks.
David will presumably have known that the aged Vyner-Brooks used to be a racecourse commentator in the old days, being the resident commentator at Cartmel before Iain Mackenzie inherited that position.
I was longing for David to add in the phrase “owned by Varlien Vyner-Brooks, who commentated here at Cartmel for so many years” but it never came. I was willing the horse to win for old time’s sake and it duly did. A nice piece of nostalgia for sad types like me ….
Vyner-Brooks was one of the old-fashioned types who worked part-time while having another career (in his case, as a solicitor in Kendal, near Cartmel, I believe).
CrustyPatch, I don’t recall him commentating but (I know it’s hard to believe) Peter Naughton conducted a very good interview with him after his winner. Varlien just has a way with words and reminded me very much of O’Sullevan, the same dulcet tones. I was dumbstruck when he said he used to be a commentator and was a colleague of “The Voice”.
I think you make a good point about David the commentator missing a trick, it would have been a great line to come up with. Maybe he was unaware at the time of the connection (just shows how important preparation is) but maybe he will get the opportunity again in the near future.
Thanks, Yeats.
I’d be surprised if young shaver David Fitzgerald hadn’t known that the aged Varlien Vyner-Brooks was one of his predecessors as a racecourse commentator at Cartmel, given his encyclopaedic knowledge of racing and his liking for adding in all sorts of interesting information into his commentaries.David is becoming something of a budding resident commentator there himself.
No doubt he might have thought that nobody, especially younger racegoers, would be interested in who used to commentate at Cartmel 30 years ago and only mentioned him and the co-owner several times because of the local stable links.
Good to see that Varlien had another winner on the Monday at Cartmel.
Varlien used to be a regular racecourse commentator at Market Rasen, too, and was always impeccably dressed in a double-breasted suit and colourful tie but one of his colleagues told me many years ago that Varlien packed it in because he was fed up with travelling much further afield than his Lake District base.
He was persuaded to make a brief comeback to commentate at Uttoxeter on Easter Monday in the days when they had 16 meetings and were no doubt short of a commentator.
He was of the generation when some commentators did not even bother to find out the first names of jockeys. In one race commentary at Market Rasen, he referred several times to a horse with “S. Johnson in the saddle”. He obviously couldn’t be bothered to find out in advance, as part of his homework, that it was Steve Johnson.
John Budden used to do the same, referring to “W. Worthington” instead of Billy Worthington. But many racecourse commentators of that era, notably the northern-based Bryan Firth, never, ever mentioned jockeys by name in races and when identifying the runners on the way to post and only ever gave the horses’ names and nothing whatever more.
I’ve actually stopped watching the racing on TV. Initially I thought ITV was an improvement, but this year is the first I haven’t watched the Grand National (though that is hardly ITV’s fault as it’s just any old race now), the Derby, Oaks and Royal Ascot. One of the problems has been recording as they keep changing the channels and also the programme titles, making it difficult for anyone who sets up recordings. The main gripe is the lack of horse coverage before the race, especially galling when there are talking heads and you can see the runners in the background. That clown Chapman is the last straw. Also racing just isn’t as interesting as it used to be, Coolmore clones all from the same bloodlines just don’t do it for me.
I will probably come back for the jumping, but I used to enjoy each code equally.<p abp=”234″>I’ve actually stopped watching the racing on TV. Initially I thought ITV was an improvement, but this year is the first I haven’t watched the Grand National (though that is hardly ITV’s fault as it’s just any old race now), the Derby, Oaks and Royal Ascot. One of the problems has been recording as they keep changing the channels and also the programme titles, making it difficult for anyone who sets up recordings. The main gripe is the lack of horse coverage before the race, especially galling when there are talking heads and you can see the runners in the background. That clown Chapman is the last straw. Also racing just isn’t as interesting as it used to be, Coolmore clones all from the same bloodlines just don’t do it for me.<br abp=”235″>
I will probably come back for the jumping, but I used to enjoy each code equally.I have always preferrred the jumps game and I can but hope ITV gets its act together in the coming weeks and months. I switched on on Tuesday less than five minutes before the start of a race, only to find some affected twat talking about fashion and listening to a choir. What a self-indulgent bunch they are.
Good job Matt Chapman keeps a bit of perspective on Winter’s performance. Unlike the rest of the team.
Value Is EverythingGood job Matt Chapman keeps a bit of perspective on Winter’s performance. Unlike the rest of the team.
I missed it Ginger, what was the Chapman verdict on her performance ?
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