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It would never happen the other way round……
Even if it might be right to escape wins without penalties, it still stinks.
Good luck to ‘em. They have found a loophole and exploited it. Not hurting anyone, are they?
I don’t think anyone objects to decent Irish horses coming over to compete in our top handicaps – they enhance the action. However, when they’re winning bread-and-butter £5k races doing handsprings, I doubt if UK trainers & owners are impressed.
I’m generally not keen on protectionism, but some Irish trainers are taking the mickey. Maybe a blanket 7lb penalty for all overseas runners below graded level would help.
Mike
Not hurting anyone since you don’t have to bet on such races. But the prices are a joke and they travel as if they have 2 stones in hand and holding something back for the next start.
In the first race at Catterick today there was an ex-Irish 66-1 shot that was backed into 4-1 and easily won an amateur riders’ race. It was his 2nd start for Ryan Potter and while there is nothing wrong with winning a race, all of a sudden you wonder where the improvement came from. Especially the confidence behind the horse if you stake that much money in this type of race.
“However, when they’re winning bread-and-butter £5k races doing handsprings, I doubt if UK trainers & owners are impressed.”
I saw a race at Sedgefield a few weeks ago when an Irish trained runner absolutely hacked up. It must be very galling for small trainers in the north of England to aim a horse at a nice prize and see an Irish trained runner laugh at them.
I’m by no means an expert but isn’t this an output of how competitive the racing is in Ireland with a condensed number of fixtures and opportunities, more horses are staying over there to be trained and run in Ireland rather than being sold over to run in Britain as happened in the past.
At Naas tomorrow there is a low grade handicap hurdle, there are 28 declared with 3 of them being reserves. Top weight is carrying 12st 4 (rated about 92) and bottom weight 11st 6- there were 68 horses declared at the 6 day stage.
So I can completely see why these horses are coming over here to the UK win 2 weaker races in quick succession (e.g. Vee Dancer ) easily then battling it out just to get a run in one of the fiercely competitive Irish races.
The jumps racing here outside the big meetings is quite thin and uncompetitive. If there were less fixtures / courses in the UK then naturally that should mean the races would be more competitive and prizemoney should nudge up and it may deter the irish raiders from coming over.
But that doesn’t fit into the bookies plans does it so we carry on as we are
Why is there so little racing in Ireland during the winter?
I appreciate the West of Ireland is exposed to the Atlantic and gets plenty of rain, making it impractical for tracks on that side of the country to race. But it still must be possible to have more racing than they do.
There has not been a scheduled jumps meeting in Ireland since last Saturday. Is that really sensible given the number of horses there must be in training now?
I was thinking the same, why is there a five day break in the middle of the NH season? Also, you never have two irish jumps meetings on the same day, unless it’s the weekend or a Bank Holiday. The lack of opportunities plus the very competitive races – even a 28-runner maiden hurdle fits into that bill – force trainers to go to alternatives. One of them is sending unexposed horses over to GB.
How many times don’t we get two races in one? The first 5 or 6 home are the real “triers” from the bigger stables and in behind you get the 150-1 or 200-1 shots who don’t even move a muscle. Assessing those horses properly plus the possibility of escaping a penalty if turned out quickly makes the whole matter even more complicated. When Elliott sends a horse over to Perth or Ayr, most of the times, you’ll know what to expect. But those also rans in maidens who never even finish within one flight behind the winner, are the ones generating the (sometimes) well executed gambles.
I guess it’s to do with crowds. People are more likely to be on holiday over the Christmas period and so that’s when the meetings are scheduled. Just like when there are are a crazy amount of meetings on during bank holidays here in the UK.
It’s also nice for the the stable staff to have some time off and see family during this period .
They’ve made a conscious effort to give stable staff more breaks, as seen with the addition of certain blank Sundays across the year. BHA has also gone pretty protectionist, citing covid as an excuse, by preventing Irish entries in Class 6 races or below (might even be Class 5, not sure).
British cheats winning British handicaps
What is the difference? The fuel expenses?Naas first three races are maiden hurdles with 76 runners declared. ( 6 reserves)
All of the races fully entered. Will there be seventy runners in maiden hurdles in England this week?
As had been pointed out, they are exploiting a loophole of a different handicap system and a different structure of racing and an inherent weakness in the game. With huge Irish fields in handicaps, there are lots of horses who are very leniently rated for a long time.
Nothing to stop anyone picking up these horses and placing them ready to clean up in England.A few points:
1. Over the jumps the scale used by the Irish handicapper differs from that used by the GB handicapper. At 150 they are more or less equal, after that the ‘equivalent’ Irish figure is about 2 pts per 10lbs goping down the scale so that 110 is about 100 on the Irish scale. There seems to be very little ‘comparing of notes’ between the two set of handicapers. (Seems to be different on the flat where the two scales tally). I believe the Irish handicapper
2. More places to hide in big fields in Ireland and some horses are given ratings when blatently not raced for their first 3 appearances. Ronan McNally’s Vee Dancer was ‘not raced’ in 4 maidens before gaining an Irish rating of 90 for a run at Down Royal. (hampered early which gave a nice excuse to press a little without giving it the full works) No particular finger point at Ronan McNally, he’s merely taking advantage of the system and seems to know the right horses with which to do it. Sir Mark Prescott has been taking the mickey out of the handicapper on the flat for many years…, but now everybody knows it.
3. Horses are getting a rating when beaten 50 lengths plus in all their maidens. There has to be siome effort to ensure horses are raced properly, and withdraw from giving a mark if they aren’t.
4. The Official mark of Irish trained horses isn’t released on BHA site until they are entered in a handicap. The mark can be ‘devined’ by looking at the BHA Performance figure from their last race. Vee Dancer (last recorded OR 100) ran to 118 at Hereford. Not got a figure for Catterick but presumably would be 120+.
5. Irish handicapper is much more inclined to ignore distances and bump up a horse for a good deal more than standard pounds per length.
I stick to ratings for Class 3 and better where form is more exposed and there isn’t the scope for keeping them hidden. I have had success in lower grades but there’s more ‘noise’ in the form. When there’s an potential blot, particularly with Irish trained lurkers, I would hold back. One area to be a little wary is a horse running down the field in maiden/novice hurdles then going straight to chases.
And finally Cyril, there are three horses currently rated 20 over hurdles. This means they will be running 50+lbs out of the handicap which is daft. Marias Lad was backed in to 9/2 on chase debut so somebody thinks this is much better over fences, but having a rating of 20 is nigh on meaningless. Ratings related level weights novice chases to start off?
Great explanation, Rob.
Gavin Cromwell had a winner in a novice hurlde at Naas today that was backed from 40s into 3s and won how he liked.
The horse finished tailed off in a bumper and three novice chases (price between 150-1 and 300-1). A week after his third chase start, he ran in a h’cap chase and was only 13/2 that day. Something went badly wrong and he finished well beaten again. After an eight month break he bolted up in a novice hurdle today with the above mentioned money coming for him.
Just look at the first three hurdle races at Naas today: The first five home are something like 15-20 lengths apart. Then from place 5,6 to 15 or so you have another 30-40 lengths and then there is another huge gap to the last horses. Some of them finishing between 150-200 lengths behind the winner. Now, they don’t pull up, they like to finish a well tailed-off 25th or so…..
@Robnorth – I watched that Marias Lad race and saw the gamble. Now will the handicapper raise him for falling because there was money for it in the morning ?
Hi ex Ruby.
Routine Excellence was the horse in question in a unplaced maidens hurdle.
The criteria demanded that runners had not won or been placed under rules.
So Routine Excellence was a winning pointer and thus the shrewd yard set about putting the horse ready to win this race.
I didn’t spot it in the race reading but he was a winner contesting a maiden race.
That is very clever placing of a horse masked to win a race.
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