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The Waste Land
APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
Winter kept us warm, covering
Earth in forgetful snow, feeding
A little life with dried tubers.Wet Aprils; young hooves encountering alien surfaces; the 3yo is a different beast to the 2yo; look and learn; keep the wallet closed; it’s fools’ gold
Anticipation indeed: the wise wait but the foolish bet
There’s more NH in May than there is in October: look thataway Spring punter, that’s the motherlode
GT ,,,the prof does have a point , April and May do stagger in a bit , the start of the flat is a damp squib , and in exceptional years like this one , the weather further dampens(forgive me )the sport even further
The Jumping is better craic , by far , Flat racing does not kick in properly until the July meeting …imo
now for another month of Kempton …..(I shudder to think what the other dross is like )…not really exciting is it ??
Ricky
GT ,,,the prof does have a point , April and May do stagger in a bit , the start of the flat is a damp squib , and in exceptional years like this one , the weather further dampens(forgive me )the sport even further
The Jumping is better craic , by far , Flat racing does not kick in properly until the July meeting …imo
now for another month of Kempton …..(I shudder to think what the other dross is like )…not really exciting is it ??
Ricky
I’ve got a day off work to go to a decent Musselburgh meeting tomorrow. Quite happy with that.
Cheerful Rob
The Waste Land
APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.
Winter kept us warm, covering
Earth in forgetful snow, feeding
A little life with dried tubers.We shall not cease from form study
And the end of all our punting
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first timeWith apologies to Eliot.
The Jumping is better craic , by far , Flat racing does not kick in properly until the July meeting …imo
now for another month of Kempton …..(I shudder to think what the other dross is like )…not really exciting is it ??
Ricky
Quality of the average flat race is better than the average quality of jumps racing at this time of year.What quality jumps race is there (on this side of the Irish Sea) this time of year? There is no quality jumping in Britain between now and October. So your arguement doesn’t seem to add up.
Colour Vision put up a top quality staying performance at Kempton yesterday.
Someone said they prefer the "thrills and spills" of jumping. I’m sorry, I don’t go racing to see horses fall.
I love the jumps just as much as the flat. Once the Grand National is over I’m looking foreward to the flat. Once Champions Day is over I’m looking foreward to the jumps.
Value Is EverythingPersonally, I think I’ll feel more cheerful about the flat once it’s accompanied by the appropriate weather. It seems all wrong to see these fine, sleek sprinters ploughing their way through the mud and the slanting, gloomy rain. Bring on the sunshine!
Let’s go through your points one by one Prof.
"The form is all over the place".
Really? Buy a good form book Prof, you might not find it as difficult then.
"the eternal 2 year old to 3 year old improvment problem".
Is it that bad? There are things to look out for. (Simplified) Small 2 year olds often don’t train on. Big 2 year olds often improve greatly. Get Timeform, thre’ll take the "p" and "P"s (show you the ones likely to improve).
"the whole all-weather complication stirred in".
Stick to the better quality racing and there’s not much all-weather form to worry about. And when there is I don’t have much trouble.
"all-weather racing is basically *****CENSORED BY THE JOCKEY CLUB*****".
I gather that is somehow supposed to mean it’s bent. Well don’t bet on it then if you feel that way. Amount of skulduggery is greatly exaggerated by losing punters. What goes on is usually in the lowest grades, therefore is easily sidestepped by any punter.
"Middle East crap that no punter I know is interested in; too much guesswork, too little hard info".
If there’s too little form to go on then don’t bet. But I am "interested in it Prof
so you know one punter that is. Just one bet, one winner (Cirrus Des Aigles). Had I had two it would’ve been another winner (Cityscape)."odds on favourites, weird turn-ups".
If there are odds-on favs that get beaten, then surely a punter can get good value winners?
"You can’t bet confidently and anyone who says they do is telling pork pies".
Then I guess I must be telling porkie pies.
Stop this "I can’t make a profit, so nobody can make a profit" crap. Take a look at my flat thread in DLAP. Bets in 12 races so far this season, 7 winners (5 main bet winners). I’ve even increased stakes recently, so no lack of confidence here. Of course there are things to take in to consideration at this time of year. Be selective; look for trainers in form; horses with a good record after a long break (if on reappearance) etc."A month in, and I’m bored by it. I had Rougement (guess) and Colonel Mak (Form study) and about two others".
I’d get bored with it Prof, if I didn’t have enough winners.
"it’s hard work considering the sheer volume of racing".
Consider specialising. Find out what type of racing suits you. May be ignore the Class 4 and worse? If sprints aren’t your thing cut them out too. Then you’ll have more time to study and only need to watch a smaller amount of racing.
"The thought of doing any Flat form study makes your heart sink. As I understand it, we, the paying punters are supposed to be jumping for joy at this mess. Well, I ain’t".
If it’s that bad then may be it’s time to find something else to do Prof. If you don’t enjoy studying the form, then you’re unlikely to be in the right frame of mind to find winners.
"Is anyone really excited at the prospect of the Guineas or the classics? As a spectacle maybe, but as a betting opp? I’d rather sort out the winner of a class 3 chase in the depths of winter".
Then you have got it bad. I can’t wait. Love punting on this and every Classic. The ground question just makes it even more interesting. May be you should just pack up the Flat form books and concentrate on Jumps Prof.
You do get a
"sporting chance of winning"
on the flat. Just got to be good enough to take it.
"At the start of the Flat I find myself watching the depressing sight of horses going backwards, and wagers going down by a nose and all that. Having losing runs that simply would not happen on the jumps. It’s boring and annoying. It is only my opinion. Maybe it has to be this way, I don’t know".
Oh God, you’re even beginning to depress me now.
It’ll happen over the jumps too. Might be "boring and annoying"
Prof, but even knowledgeable punters go through losing runs now and again.
"What I do know is, you will never find new fans on what March and April have to offer. Never".
Probably gets some new recruits, but the better the weather and quality of racing, the more interest / new fans are gained. Goes for jumps as well as flat.
"Now of course, there will be a squadron of defiant anoraks posting after me who say the Classics are the best thing ever and yadda yadda, and they are entitled to their opinion. I enjoy the Derby and so on. But".
That’ll be me then.
Each to his own and all that, but I find early season betting very profitable, whether over jumps or flat.
Just for a change, why not write a thread that’s bright and cheerful Prof, with all the things you like about racing?
Value Is EverythingKudos to the prof for managing to get firmly lodged in GT’s head.
If I wasn’t bored to the nth degree of tedium by these gambling fuelled lamentation threads, I would have suggested something along the lines of trying to get to know the ne’er region between another person’s legs. Considerably more fun than gambling.
But alas, I fear I may be barking up the wrong tree here.
I much prefer the jumps (better value for viewing, with the longer races, thrills and spills) but I actually set the video for the At The Races coverage from Kempton today (rearranged from Ascot).
Wanted to see the ATR coverage from Kempton (instead of it usually being just on Racing UK and not both) to see how it compared with the usual ATR fare. Yes, I know, I should get a life….
I do find Flat racing much less engrossing to watch, especially if it is mundane, but I can happily watch even the lowest grade jumps meetings or Irish jumps meetings on ATR and find the spectacle of the action interesting, even if the quality of the runners is poor. Can’t really say that for the Flat.Completely agree with this.
And the previous poster with the world ‘excited’. Cheltenham has raised the bar for the flat too high. Sets an impeccable standard.
Let’s go through your points one by one Prof.
"The form is all over the place".
Really? Buy a good form book Prof, you might not find it as difficult then.
"the eternal 2 year old to 3 year old improvment problem".
Is it that bad? There are things to look out for. (Simplified) Small 2 year olds often don’t train on. Big 2 year olds often improve greatly. Get Timeform, thre’ll take the "p" and "P"s (show you the ones likely to improve).
"the whole all-weather complication stirred in".
Stick to the better quality racing and there’s not much all-weather form to worry about. And when there is I don’t have much trouble.
"all-weather racing is basically *****CENSORED BY THE JOCKEY CLUB*****".
I gather that is somehow supposed to mean it’s bent. Well don’t bet on it then if you feel that way. Amount of skulduggery is greatly exaggerated by losing punters. What goes on is usually in the lowest grades, therefore is easily sidestepped by any punter.
"Middle East crap that no punter I know is interested in; too much guesswork, too little hard info".
If there’s too little form to go on then don’t bet. But I am "interested in it Prof
so you know one punter that is. Just one bet, one winner (Cirrus Des Aigles). Had I had two it would’ve been another winner (Cityscape)."odds on favourites, weird turn-ups".
If there are odds-on favs that get beaten, then surely a punter can get good value winners?
"You can’t bet confidently and anyone who says they do is telling pork pies".
Then I guess I must be telling porkie pies.
Stop this "I can’t make a profit, so nobody can make a profit" crap. Take a look at my flat thread in DLAP. Bets in 12 races so far this season, 7 winners (5 main bet winners). I’ve even increased stakes recently, so no lack of confidence here. Of course there are things to take in to consideration at this time of year. Be selective; look for trainers in form; horses with a good record after a long break (if on reappearance) etc."A month in, and I’m bored by it. I had Rougement (guess) and Colonel Mak (Form study) and about two others".
I’d get bored with it Prof, if I didn’t have enough winners.
"it’s hard work considering the sheer volume of racing".
Consider specialising. Find out what type of racing suits you. May be ignore the Class 4 and worse? If sprints aren’t your thing cut them out too. Then you’ll have more time to study and only need to watch a smaller amount of racing.
"The thought of doing any Flat form study makes your heart sink. As I understand it, we, the paying punters are supposed to be jumping for joy at this mess. Well, I ain’t".
If it’s that bad then may be it’s time to find something else to do Prof. If you don’t enjoy studying the form, then you’re unlikely to be in the right frame of mind to find winners.
"Is anyone really excited at the prospect of the Guineas or the classics? As a spectacle maybe, but as a betting opp? I’d rather sort out the winner of a class 3 chase in the depths of winter".
Then you have got it bad. I can’t wait. Love punting on this and every Classic. The ground question just makes it even more interesting. May be you should just pack up the Flat form books and concentrate on Jumps Prof.
You do get a
"sporting chance of winning"
on the flat. Just got to be good enough to take it.
"At the start of the Flat I find myself watching the depressing sight of horses going backwards, and wagers going down by a nose and all that. Having losing runs that simply would not happen on the jumps. It’s boring and annoying. It is only my opinion. Maybe it has to be this way, I don’t know".
Oh God, you’re even beginning to depress me now.
It’ll happen over the jumps too. Might be "boring and annoying"
Prof, but even knowledgeable punters go through losing runs now and again.
"What I do know is, you will never find new fans on what March and April have to offer. Never".
Probably gets some new recruits, but the better the weather and quality of racing, the more interest / new fans are gained. Goes for jumps as well as flat.
"Now of course, there will be a squadron of defiant anoraks posting after me who say the Classics are the best thing ever and yadda yadda, and they are entitled to their opinion. I enjoy the Derby and so on. But".
That’ll be me then.
Each to his own and all that, but I find early season betting very profitable, whether over jumps or flat.
Just for a change, why not write a thread that’s bright and cheerful Prof, with all the things you like about racing?
You should become a Timeform salesman, Ginger. Alas, when Ladbrokes had it for free I found better profits by ignoring it.
Quality of the average flat race is better than the average quality of jumps racing at this time of year.
Stop this "I can’t make a profit, so nobody can make a profit" crap. Take a look at my flat thread in DLAP. Bets in 12 races so far this season, 7 winners (5 main bet winners). I’ve even increased stakes recently, so no lack of confidence here. Of course there are things to take in to consideration at this time of year. Be selective; look for trainers in form; horses with a good record after a long break (if on reappearance) etc.
It’ll happen over the jumps too. Might be 
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